Charles Koehler 0:03 I'm Charles Koehler and this is Lambda Reports, a program by and for the St. Louis lesbian and gay community. It's been said that one of the most important issues in coming out as a gay or lesbian person is deciding who to tell. It's ironic that perhaps the most important people one can tell and the most affected might never be told. They are the parents. When and if they find out, the discovery is often followed by shock and a feeling of loss. One mother said that she was devastated and couldn't even describe her feelings for a while, she was so numb. Our guest today went through similar feelings when they learned that their son was gay. But over the years, they've learned a lot from other parents, and have recently authored a book on the coming out process from the parents side. We welcome St. Louisans Art and Marian Wirth, together with Carolyn Griffin, they have written the book Beyond Acceptance. Welcome to Lambda Reports. Marian Wirth 1:04 Thank you. Art Wirth 1:05 Thank you. Charles Koehler 1:05 Can you tell us what your experience was like when your son told you he was gay? Marian Wirth 1:13 Well, I think it was typical of experience of many parents in that we weren't prepared. It was a disappointment. And even though we told our son that we supported him, and that we loved him, which we did, it took us at least a year and maybe two years to really accept the fact that his being gay was a perfectly okay thing. We had to go through a long time grieving process, which includes a lot of guilt and feeling that we had failed somehow, as parents. Charles Koehler 1:57 You talk about kind of coming out process for the parents also. That's what it sounds like, can't What can you tell us about it? Art Wirth 2:04 Well, Charles, I think one of the things that people may not realize is that parents of a gay son or daughter often feel more isolated than the gay child did. Because of the time the gay person has come to terms with his or her sexuality, they've made other friends. Oftentimes, the parents feel that they're the only ones in the world. And they often feel that they have no one to talk with. Many times, they feel they can't talk with other relatives, they can't talk with their religious advisor, with neighbors, and they can feel terribly isolated. And the problem of, or the challenge of moving towards a more healthy attitude towards this fact, it's in their family requires that they do a number of things that help them break out of that isolation. And we found that, for example, one of the most important things is to find other parents who can share their experience with you. And that's one of the great advantages of our having in St. Louis, the Parents FLAG group, the Parents of Friends and Lesbians and Gays, a lot of times parents find it very difficult to come to the first meeting. They don't quite know what to expect, what kind of people these parents will be. But they get a feeling of relief and much help even after the first meeting. But then the process of continuing to grow and understanding experience takes a lot of time. But at the meetings, one can find good things to read. You can share experiences with other parents, and you also have a chance to meet some wonderful lesbian and gay people, which helps remove the stereotypes. Charles Koehler 4:08 It sounds like it can be very helpful for a lot of lot of parents and making that transition process. Would you recommend that all lesbians and gays come out to their parents? Marian Wirth 4:20 No, I certainly wouldn't. In general, we think that it's a healthy thing for the family for the gay or lesbian person and for the parents if they can be open with each other. And, and usually there's a good result, a barrier comes down and the relationship improves. However, there are some conditions where parents probably should not be told for example, if they have not handled difficult situations in the past very well if they have had difficulty handling new information or crisis in family. Sometimes if they are extremely religious and inflexible about that, it may be better not to tell the parents. Art Wirth 5:22 We used to recommend that all gay people tell their parents. And but we've since learned that there are some cases where the rejection is so firm that it can be harmful, especially if the gay person is dependent on the parent for financial support, for example, for college expenses, etc. So, what we recommend in general is it we have to trust our own intuits, we people know their own parents best and and with consultation with people like in PFLAG, etc. People can work through an answer to that question. Charles Koehler 6:03 What advice do you have for parents who have found out that their daughter or son is gay? Marian Wirth 6:10 Well, we feel that parents generally go through a number of stages, something like the stages in death and dying, they may First, they are in shock. They may go into denial, they may be angry, they may fear rejection from their neighbors. There's certainly a feeling of loss, almost like there's been a death in the family. And in a sense, they have lost their traditional hopes and dreams for their child. And so I would say, they need to do a couple of things. First, they need to give themselves plenty of time. It just takes time to absorb this information, but they need something more. And that is they need some factual information. They need to read some of the good books that have been written for parents. And they need some human support, now they may hopefully get support from their child. And we hope that that son or daughter is going to be patient with them and supportive of them. But they need support from somebody that they trust, or from other parents, such as parent organization. Charles Koehler 7:41 you were talking about the importance of getting correct information. And from what I understand until you collected the information for your book, there wasn't a lot of current accurate information specifically for parents. That was what was available out there. Is that pretty accurate? There's, Marian Wirth 8:01 there are there rather few books for parents, there are four or five now that have come out in the last few years. It's important for parents to get recent books, books that were written before, say 1975 Very often have a lot of the old stereotypes in them, and they can be very upsetting. And, and and the fact is, they're just not true. So parents do need to get the facts they they have proudly. The only information they have about homosexuality consists of a series of myths and all bad things. At least that's what we had when our son came out to us. Only bad information. Charles Koehler 8:54 I was wondering, Art, if you could address how the the experience of having gayness in the family has moved or can move a family situation from a negative experience to more positive one. Art Wirth 9:08 I'm glad you answered that or asked me that question, Charles, because it's been a really important positive development in my own life. I would say at the core of that is the fact that a certain healing goes on. When we move towards more truthfulness, more honesty about the facts of our life. When we're bringing up our kids, parents tend to say that we want our children to be honest kinds of people truth telling people, and yet if we discover that they're gay, a lot of times we want them to hide it deny it. In other words, we say tell the truth, but live a lie. And there's something very debilitating. getting very unhealthy about that. And while it's difficult for parents to get this news because of the homophobia in the society, once the relationship between the two of you moves towards this level of honesty and truthfulness, it opens up completely different quality of relationships. I know that I've talked to many gay and lesbian people who say that, before they got the question into the open with their parents, they felt that they weren't really saying anything to each other, they were just talking about the weather and chit chat. They couldn't talk about the deepest, most important things in their lives. And one of the ways that it's moved me from a negative to a positive thing is that it's just opened this area of truth telling, which has been very healthy for me. Charles Koehler 10:56 Great. We have time for just one more question. I was wondering what about parents who say they accept their child, but don't want to discuss the matter any further once they find out? Marian Wirth 11:09 That's a very common reaction. And it's usually a great disappointment to the gay or lesbian person, because in a sense, it is a rejection. Parents are naturally very afraid of the whole topic. And they will often take this attitude if they're permitted to. So I would say the lesbian daughter or gay son should gently and lovingly keep confronting or nudging the parent along and tell them that they know it's a difficult subject, but that it's very important that they keep talking about it. Charles Koehler 11:50 Great. You'd mentioned a little bit about the organization, PFLAG of Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, I was wondering if you could tell a little bit more about your involvement with the the organization? Art Wirth 12:02 Well, there was no such organization in town when we got the news about the 11 or 12 years ago. These organizations were just getting started in a few countries throughout the United States. And our son suggested that we find out if there was one, and if not, we might try the Metropolitan Community Church, which serves the gay and lesbian community. So we went to a meeting. And then they wanted to have a talk session with parents, we showed up. And so we found some other parents there. And out of that meeting, we had a wonderful time with gay and lesbian people. Our first experience with an open talk out of that a number of us parents decided to see if we could keep the organization going. Since then, it's become a strong national organization with how many chapters Marian Wirth 12:59 well, about 70 Art Wirth 13:01 70 full chapters. And then there are many small towns throughout the country that have what they call contacts. And at the at the end of the book, we've listed the parent organization that exists in different cities. So it's a nationwide now and it's getting to be an international organization. And Marian Wirth 13:23 it meets it meets once a month. In Kirkwood, we have a hotline number and answering service, which you can mention. Charles Koehler 13:32 Great. Well, that's all the time that we have for our program today. But I'd like to thank Art and Marian for being our guests. Their book is Beyond Acceptance, published by Prentice Hall, and is available at our world to Left Bank Books and other major bookstores. And for additional information on the organization's Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays are PFLAG you can call 821-3524. That's 821-3524. This is Charles Koehler for Lambda Reports. A program by and far the St. Louis lesbian and gay community. Hope you can join us again in two weeks. Transcribed by https://otter.ai