Charles Koehler 0:02 I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a program by and for the St Louis lesbian and gay community. On January 9, 1990 a historic event will take place in Jefferson City, Missouri. On that date, for the first time in history, an organized group of Missouri citizens will lobby its legislature for gay and lesbian rights. With us today is Privacy Rights Education Project spokesperson, and I also might add Lambda Reports co-host Debbie Law, good morning. Deborah Law 0:34 Good morning. Charles Koehler 0:36 First of all, what can you tell us about the Privacy Rights Education Project, or PREP Deborah Law 0:41 Privacy Rights Education Project is a group that actually came together after the Supreme Court decision in June of 1986 which essentially upheld the Georgia sodomy law and what has become known as the Hardwick decision. At that point, there was a spontaneous rally in front of the Old Courthouse, and several people who were in attendance and people who were concerned about it, felt that we needed to have some organized response, or it was certainly an impetus to have an organized response to both to various kinds of legislation and various issues that were affecting our rights to privacy in the state of Missouri. Two people instrumental in starting the group, Arlene. Arlene Zaremka and Zulema Halpin are still very much involved in the organization. There were several others who have come and gone from leaving St Louis and things like that. There's been many levels of activity the group has been involved in. The current thing, which you mentioned, is at least having in its initial culmination in a lobby day in Jefferson City, has been a petition drive and an effort to work to repeal the sexual misconduct law in Missouri. Charles Koehler 1:51 What can you tell us about the petition drive? Deborah Law 1:55 Well, the petition drive, again started, actually on the third anniversary of the Hardwick decision, which was declared a national day of mourning, and was organized initially by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and a group of lesbians and gays in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who felt that we needed to have some kind of response on that day, we have certainly had a tremendous response, I feel, after the Hardwick decision, while it was a very serious blow, and I think a lot of people felt that this was just like an excellent case to challenge the sodomy laws in the 25 states that still have them. And it was devastating not only to the lesbian gay community, but I think to anyone who values privacy rights. There had been a history over the last 20 years of the Supreme Court upholding privacy rights, and this was a very serious blow to that. Charles Koehler 2:41 I think that's something that many people don't realize that it really affects everyone, everyone. Deborah Law 2:48 I mean, there was a decision in 66, the Griswold decision, based on privacy rights, that finally said that women have the right to use birth control. That was a decision out of Connecticut and and there have been many, many, many important decisions that have hinged on privacy. And actually, the Georgia sodomy law was applied equally to and not applied equally, but was written to affect both homosexuals and heterosexuals. That has since changed. They have repealed the portion of the law that affected heterosexuals. Anyway, one of the things that we discussed as part of the Privacy Rights Education Project thrust would be to really challenge the sexual misconduct law in Missouri. As I said, there are 25 states that still have sodomy laws that affect homosexual sexual activity. Missouri is one of, I believe it's seven, and I may perform my numbers that actually is a state that is directed only toward homosexuals. Charles Koehler 3:45 So in other words, the Missouri law, what you're saying is the Missouri law only applies to same sex activity. Deborah Law 3:54 And let me actually tell you, really what we're talking about is there are three portions or three sections to the sexual misconduct law we only are addressing the third section, which essentially deals with the definition of sexual misconduct, which says that a person has deviant sexual intercourse. Charles Koehler 4:11 You're Reading This verbatim, right, okay, right. Deborah Law 4:13 A person has deviant sexual intercourse with another person of the same sex. It defines sexual misconduct as a class, a misdemeanor. The definition of deviant sexual intercourse means any sexual act involving the genitals of one person and the mouth, tongue, hand or anus of another person. The maximum potential penalty is one year and or $1,000 fine. We're not talking about anything light here. I mean the very fact that it's on the books. And if I may, digress just a moment. If anyone remembers when the Hardwick decision came down in June of 86 the illustrious George Peach made several derogatory statements saying, Well, this will put queers or homosexuals, which are verbatim, is what he said in our place. He then later comes out to state that, you know, he doesn't really care what we do in the privacy of our own bedrooms and of our own homes. But clearly, if this law is on the book, he and others, not only who administer the laws, but those who legislate clearly, care what we do in the privacy of our own homes. Charles Koehler 5:20 That's rather a chilling thought. Deborah Law 5:21 Very much so Charles Koehler 5:22 Very chilling. Yeah, who who supports changing the law is, has there been any any public support at all for removing this law, which has been on the books, I would imagine for a long time. Deborah Law 5:40 Well, actually, I'll say it's been on the books maybe 15 or 16 years. The sodomy law prior to there was a gin general revision of the penal code of Missouri in the early 70s. And prior to that, the sodomy law was directed at both heterosexuals and homosexuals, and there was a clear definition of what was legal sexual behavior and what was illegal sexual behavior with the revision of the penal code, it was then written, as I have just described, it, directed only toward persons of the same sex. And actually, those who were involved in revising the Penal Code said to the committee, you know, that this should just be eliminated from books. And in fact, felt that they had the support of the committee. The committee. What the committee came out and kind of changed their stance once, you know, things went public, feeling that they weren't ready to take on this issue. And I think clearly not having a sense of what kind of response they would get. The response that we have had to the petition drive has been phenomenal. There have been well over 50 organizations who have endorsed the petition drive. We have over 6000 signatures at this point. And I would say the only limit to getting signatures has just been the limit in terms of the number of people who are out there getting them. Because people have been very supportive. People have been very shocked this law is on the books. I mean, I feel a fundamental part of this drive to date has really been education. It's not been convincing people to sign this petition that this is incorrect. It has really been informing people that this law is, in fact, on the books. And there have been very few people that I have talked to who have not only felt that that was a ridiculous law, but in some kind of gut level, knew that if that law could be on the books, it didn't take it very far before somebody could begin to also tell them, you know, what they should be doing in their own bedroom. At the time of, sort of the kickoff of the petition drive, we had an absolutely incredible editorial in the St Louis Post Dispatch where really talked about the petition drive, they said it should be supported. And essentially said, regardless of one's sexual orientation, if one cares at all about privacy or their personal rights, they should be you know, endorsing and supporting this drive, there has been some work and some contact with people in the legislature to legislature to try to get someone to sponsor, essentially, the repeal itself. No one today has stepped forward and said, I will do it. There have been a lot of feelers put out. I feel like we have a lot of work also to educate our legislature. You know, in terms of what I find is that many of them also don't really know all the laws that are on the books, or much about the laws that are on the books. And again, I feel like we're doing a great deal of education in terms of doing it. We had just a superb article in the Riverfront Times, which ran maybe two or three weeks ago, maybe four now, plus reference in terms of time, that was just excellent. I mean, a front page headline talking about, you know, what century are we and how can we accommodate this on the books? You know, in terms of what, what is this directed at? Really. Charles Koehler 8:51 I find one thing rather curious in that the publicly elected officials, many of them, are not aware that this law exists. And from what you're saying is that when they find out that it does exist, they are surprised and … Deborah Law 9:09 Surprised and kind of the general and I would have to say I haven't been intimately involved in dealing with the legislature, but the feeling and response that I get from those in our organization who have been is that people indicate they will be supportive. Some have said, you know, I've got so many bills I'm sponsoring at this point that I don't feel that I can comfortably add that to my, you know, docket, or whatever, at this time I and I do think, as with anything, you know, if somebody will take that first step the census, that we will have several who will follow. It's finding that person with the time and on some level, with the courage to take that first step in terms of pursuing this repeal. We certainly, as I said, have gotten a tremendous response, and the organizations who have signed up have included some significant organizations within the lesbian and gay community, and significant organizations outside of the lesbian and gay community, religious organizations, Uh, really, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, you know, have, I mean, people have, actually, you know, stepped forward, American Friends Service Committee, the American Civil Liberties Union, the Missouri Women's Network, the National Abortion Rights A ction League, New Jewish Agenda, reproductive health services, just it has been really phenomenal. And yeah, the response has been great. Charles Koehler 10:37 And from what I understand, more and more organizations and individuals are supporting it also. So it let's talk a little bit at this point about what exactly is planned for January 9. It's just in a few days. Deborah Law 10:58 Great, yeah, actually, day after tomorrow, isn't it? Yeah, this has not gone much too quickly. Actually, what's planned for January 9 really is, as you said, a very historic day. It's our first Lobby Day in Jefferson City. Not that many lesbian and gays have not been in Jefferson City for many issues in terms of lobby but it's gonna be the first time that we're gonna be there saying, you know, we are lesbian, we are gay, and here is our issue, and educating the legislatures, legislators about the issue, one of the initial events is going to be a press conference, at which time the petitions will be acknowledged, the numbers discussed, and if at all possible, those will be presented to some designated representative of the legislature, either at the press conference or taking the press to that presentation, if that's at all possible. There will also be an opportunity for both members of our community. And I focus on us because we have not been to Jefferson City in this capacity before. But there's a much broader spectrum of people who will be going to Jefferson City and … Charles Koehler 12:00 From Kansas City, also from, I understand, all over … Deborah Law 12:03 the state. People are going to be coming to Jefferson City and also beyond our community itself. And of course, our meetings both St Louis and certainly lesbian and gay, in terms of people who feel that this issue is very important, something that needs to be dealt with directly. Charles Koehler 12:17 So in other words, what you're saying is that the people that will be there won't all be lesbians and gays. Of course, there will be the straight community, people that are concerned about what is right, Deborah Law 12:33 Correct. Charles Koehler 12:33 Yeah, you know that this law is on the books and feeling that if we, if this is a democracy, these kinds of things can't be, you know, on our books that we have to be able to accommodate the differences and all be able to function as full human beings in the society. Obviously, there's a lot of work on a lot of fronts that need to be done to be able to accommodate this. Also, as part of this, each of us will be also scheduled. There's probably not much of a chance to schedule anything now, but we'll have either scheduled or we'll be talking we'll be talking to our respective legislators, both, you know, senators and folks from and representatives, talking to them about our concerns and really just, you know, forcing, hey, will you support us on this bill? Because we really don't have a bill for them to support, an opportunity for us to get to know our legislators. Many of us have not had an opportunity to do that before, have not had an issue to go to Jefferson City on and to educate them the issue. So I feel like a great deal of Education has happened and will be happening. One certainly needs no previous experience. We will not be checking, you know, on previous lobbying experience when you get to Jefferson City. There's also for anyone who doesn't feel physically up to it. There's not going to be any marching. I mean, it's, we're really going to be combiding our activities to, you know, the chambers, and in terms of … Charles Koehler 13:54 If a person is interested in participating, is it? Is it too late? Deborah Law 13:59 It's not too late at all. We do have a bus going up there, and there we will be doing, of course, some kind of preliminary work on, you know, on the bus, Charles Koehler 14:09 Some basic guidelines or suggestions? Deborah Law 14:13 Right. And we have had a couple of brainstorming sessions and some lobby day training sessions. And so there'll be information available to people who might initially feel intimidated, but it's part of the whole process is to demystify the whole thing. If you have any questions you'd like to know, there may be a couple spots on the bus, I'm not sure, or how to meet up with us. Please call Brad at 862-5773. He will be in the PREP office all day tomorrow, Monday, January, 8. I believe it is. And he, in fact, American Friends Service Committee has given us some office space, and we thank him very much. But again, call Brad at 862-5773, if you can't join us on Tuesday, the petition drive will be continuing. There will be lobby training days and lobbying days in our future. So. This isn't going to happen overnight, and we've got a lot of work, Deborah Law 15:09 and we've got a lot of work ahead of us, so come out and join us. It's truly a rewarding experience. Charles Koehler 15:14 It's only the beginning. Deborah Law 15:15 Only the beginning. Charles Koehler 15:17 Well, thanks very much for joining us. Deborah Law 15:19 Thank you very much. Charles Koehler 15:20 and hope that some of our listeners can join up with a number of us for lobbying day. Deborah Law 15:27 Be there. Charles Koehler 15:28 This has been Charles Koehler for our Lambda Report. Tune us in again next week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai