Kim Jayne 0:02 I think that the drug war is also a way to militarize our country. I mean, a lot of this, I don't mean to sound alarmist, although I think it's alarming, but um, Deborah Law 0:16 Well, I actually, I do think that they're using the smoke screen of the drug war to really continue to erode civil and human rights in this country? Kim Jayne 0:24 Yeah, definitely. But in St Louis, that's where I was, yeah, thinking of, it's, it's been responded to, you know, it's hard to, to argue against Take Back the Night. I mean, women are clearly abused. We're, you know, we're beaten up. You know, 95% of all assaults against women are done by men. Who kills people, you know? I'm sure that I don't have to have a whole list of statistics in front of me for people to agree that men are the people who usually commit murder. You know, in the military. I mean, I consider that murder also and on the street. And most women who are killed, it's like three out of four women who are murdered are murdered in their home. So Deborah Law 1:16 Well, I think I had thought of three different specific areas that I was wondering how they responded. Clearly, a march in the street requires some level of cooperation from the police force. I was wondering sort of what the response was. If there was any cooperation from the police force or, Kim Jayne 1:34 Well, it was, I don't think I'd you know be going against any confidentiality, but we actually had planned the march in University City, which has a very progressive victim service council program. Works and works really hard to prevent rape. Also works very diligently with victims after an assault or rape. And we thought because of its mix in socio-economic groups, racial groups, you know, it's a very mixed community. But the police department, I think, is who actually, you know, became the obstacle. They they took on kind of a defensive attitude, to tell you the truth. They they felt, why are you choosing U City? And you know, I could really understand it. However, when they talked about, you know, you're not in the right neighborhood, I don't believe that domestic violence is in any neighborhood (Specific, right?) And rape, I don't know if that is either, but we wanted to cross class, racial and, you know, different lines. So we're hope. We've, we've decided in instead of, you know, going on and on with that debate with them, we went back to Benton Park, the area of Jefferson and Arsenal, South City, it's also a mixed area, especially in terms of race, and it also has a high incidence of domestic violence. KRJY Announcer 3:13 KRJY St Louis. Kim Jayne 3:16 So we were, you know, we were, you know, received a little defensively. Sometimes, I guess the city's used to it, and they don't really give us, you know, much problems. Deborah Law 3:31 How about the press? Kim Jayne 3:34 I think the bigger the march becomes through the years, the more press will get. Except the problem I found last year is, if you get too complex, the regular TV news has difficulty picking connections of things up. They want it to be Is it domestic violence or is it poverty? You know, what are you talking about. and and it's, it's a complicated issue when you're talking about, you know, a whole community of women. Deborah Law 4:03 That's very true. And speaking of those connections, and you had so eloquently brought in the global issues in terms of militarism and essentially leading to, you know, this country's foreign policy, I was wondering too, how various organizations from the left, who you know, certainly in years past and a couple decades, there was a fairly major split in terms of the women's movement. And leftist organizations, but specific to organizations in St Louis, involvement in any organizational aspects or certainly endorsing the March. Kim Jayne 4:37 We meet out of the World Community Center, which houses several different organizations in St Louis, the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom has supported us and supports us now. And St Louis Free they, you know, they put our put out our publicity, and you know, membership comes to our March. Um. Here we have some Central American groups, Latin America Solidarity Committee participate, you know, on various levels, mainly just showing up and supporting, you know, and RAVEN, of course, the men's organization, rape and violence. And now they give us, you know, substantial support in terms of real leg work and work, they provide child care. They help with the child care and financial support also. Deborah Law 5:31 That's great, because I do feel like one of the significant things that happens both before an event such as this and duri is really the educational aspect and how we educate one another as we work on our issues and refine each other's understandings of the significance and the interconnectedness of the issues. It's great. Well, I mentioned earlier, this isn't the first march here, and I don't know if I didn't get it exactly accurate. I think when I first announced it, because this is the second city wide March, and last year was considered a 10th Anniversary in the sense that there hadn't been a march in the St Louis area. No. Area, city wide since 1979 though there had been some other smaller marches. Can you fill us in in terms of, you know, are other communities marching this fall and sort of the history of the march in St Louis? Kim Jayne 6:18 far as I know, so last year was the only was the first time that I actually participated, you know, actively in it. So that's why I wish I had a modem for my computer, because you can get in touch with a lot of different national organizations and coordinate things. You know, I'm finally learning the significance of technology. You know, you can do a lot more, but I understand that they're pretty frequent actually, in California, different areas of California. I know there was one in Oregon. Someone brought back some literature from there. That was this spring, and there is going to be, I believe, like a week later from the 13th, which is our March, a march in Illinois. And I don't know exactly what city Deborah Law 7:10 Great Do you in terms of even the 10 year gap and from, I don't know if there has been any of the same people involved 10 years ago who were involved last year. Do you know? Did the has the intent of the march changed in St Louis? You feel that the March has matured? Kim Jayne 7:28 Well, I think they were addressing the issue of race back then, back in 1979 I understand the March was the City of St Louis going on to the bridge and meeting east side, East St Louis women. So I think it was, it's, it has for a long time. I think it's the intent has been to unite, you know, the, you know, races of women, black and white in St Louis. And that was definitely our intent this year too, is the real division. You know, St Louis as a whole is totally divided, but I just think women do not have much of a reason to be divided. Deborah Law 8:12 Okay. Well, in fact, that kind of brings me to a point, because I know many years ago, at least in some of the national women's papers, there really was a charge leveled against the Take Back the Night, saying that it was racist in its origin and intent, and that was sort of indicated by who marched and when and where people selected to March. I know some of the women involved in St Louis, and I know that the issue, and certainly you have confirmed that, has been addressed here, and I know that this year's committee stated a real hope of bringing together North Side and South Side women. And I wondered, Is that happening? Has it been happening during the planning process, and what kind of strategies you all employed? Kim Jayne 8:55 Well, we really, we reached out to a lot of the shelters, and several of the shelters have black women in their leadership. And we have had actual working committees with great leadership by black women. They have, you know, connections everywhere they can pull out numbers. They have, you know, churches, things like that. In terms of our program, we chose speakers who could address, you know, both the issues of race and class and and I think it will be addressed this year. I know it's, you know, developing working relationships takes a long time. You know, developing trust and you don't just automatically, but the enthusiasm and the real unity and the gentleness combined with anger is really made for I mean, we've been working on this since June, and I think there is a pretty tight nip knit. But. Um, very inclusive group of people, ready to include just about anyone. You know, Deborah Law 10:07 That's great. That's really great because it is a very serious problem in St Louis. It is as it is, right? (It's also been …) and I mean, just in terms of both institutionalized racism, which is so ingrained, and I think for us as white women, indigenous racism, in terms of so it's very exciting to hear, and I think links and very solid, hopefully some very solid blocks as we can improve. You know, our work in our communities, who is the committee as it is? I mean, how's it formed? Who is involved? And, Kim Jayne 10:39 Well, last year, it started out with a woman just sitting down at her typewriter. She worked at Missouri Botanical Garden. She's just, it's a truly grassroots movement, is what its appeal to me is. And she just sent out letters to organizations and to friends and said, Hey, would you like to do this? And people showed up, and we just went from there. Deborah Law 11:02 Great. So how many people were involved this year? And what you mentioned organizations? Do some organizations and send representatives to committee meetings. Kim Jayne 11:11 Yes, several of the, oh, I mean, I could, I could list and then really forget a lot of people. So that's, that's basically what it is, anyone who wants to make a banner, anybody who wants to help on the flyer, anyone. Outreach is our biggest thing, and that's what has made it so inclusive. Because everybody works somewhere, everybody has a group of people that they associate with, and that's what we depend on. We don't have billboards, we don't have TV commercials, we don't have newspaper ads, we we just word of mouth. You know, that's it. And I mean, in terms of a committee we are about, there are core people, about 12, I would say, and then there are lots and lots of periphery people, you know, Deborah Law 12:00 This is the kind of gossip that always makes men nervous. Again, to re-emphasize, the March is going to be held on October 13. It's just a week away. If someone is, you know, inspired by our conversation, as I hope many are certainly to attend, but who would like to be involved in any last minute efforts. Are there? Do you still need some people to be posting with them? Kim Jayne 12:25 We have posters that still can be put up. We have flyers. You can stand at your grocery store, seriously. You can go to your church. You can whatever you do, you know, take some flyers with you. We still need people helping with some of the banners call me up. Deborah Law 12:43 Great. How can people get in touch with either you or someone today? Kim Jayne 12:46 My name is Kim, 531-5444. Deborah Law 12:49 Okay, and we'll repeat that before the end of the program again, for anyone who's interested in getting involved this year. And certainly, then there would be an opportunity for people to make connections at the March, if they're interested in getting involved in years in the future. We've sort of touched on some of the things that I think the organization of the committee hopes to accomplish. Are there any you know, in terms of both specifically for the night? I mean, we've we've talked about philosophy, but the accomplishments for that night, and then I would assume what you know, what we might see in the next year, or Kim Jayne 13:24 Well, it's, we've, we've discussed that a lot. We wanted to have some kind, some specific demands that we, you know, publicly, came out with when we had initially, initially planned to hold the March in University City, we had thought there needs to be a shelter for abused women in the county, there's none. There's very little shelter space at all, and the majority of homeless people are women. And right now, we don't have specific demands there. You know, the adult abuse laws we wanted strengthened, they were really general. But my idea, and a lot of the people on the committee share this, is to get people used to being especially women in the street, and just being able to express anger and frustration in a really non-violent, in a unified manner. You know, I think getting people back into the streets, because, personally, I'm sick to death of writing my congressman. I'm tired of making calls, punching a voting card, you know, choosing among this rich white man, and that rich white man doesn't seem to make a big difference. And I believe in real popular movements. You know, Deborah Law 14:53 We haven't talked at all about what is planned for that night, so maybe you can talk about what's happening that night, and how that fits into just what you want. Kim Jayne 15:02 I think it's going to be a real dynamic evening. Jasmine is a very popular women's band in St Louis. They've agreed to play in the beginning of the of the event. And the saints (Starts at 630 right?) That we're going to have a little bit of a pre-rally before the March, and that will include Jasmine, then a woman by the name of Jamala Rogers. She's real popular in St Louis. She heads up an organization called the organization for black struggle. She's a very fiery type of person. She's going to lead us out and the, excuse me, the St Louis Women's Choir is going to sing several songs on a participatory type of arrangement. You know, everybody's supposed to join in and lead off on the March. Should start by 7:30 at the latest, and the March takes just about an hour, maybe not quite that long. Come back, and we'll hear Robin Boyce, a woman that works with one of the radio stations here in town, Magic 108, and she's very popular in St. Louis too, a black woman. And we're having, this was a little controversial, but we're having a woman named Kathy Polaris talking about self-defense, and if there is a chance that a woman could defend herself physically against an attack, you know, here are a couple ideas, and a woman who is going to kind of wind down the down the entire event and form sort of a bonding type of thing, so that all these thousands of women that are going to be there can feel united, you know, and that, I think that's it, please. I hope I'm not forgetting something. Deborah Law 15:09 Sounds exciting. Kim Jayne 17:04 I think it will be. Deborah Law 17:04 It will be a surprise if you have forgotten some, (Yeah.) I'm sure pleasant surprise. And I would assume then the speakers are going to be touching on the points that you have touched on (Definitely.) the connections in all of our lives and how all of us both face the terror and horror of violence. (I know.) I've seen what we can be doing about it. Who's invited? Well, no, I have another question. I just thought of that. I need to ask you, in terms of the March, how long is the march? And certainly, if women are not able to walk unassisted, I'm certain there's, you know, having been on marches, there's no problem if one is in a chair. Kim Jayne 17:43 Not at all. We've had that last year (assist) and we have a nurse following. Deborah Law 17:49 So is it about a mile? Kim Jayne 17:51 Yeah, just about (Okay) yeah. Maybe I think it's right at a mile. Deborah Law 17:57 And then certainly, if one feels like they can't do the March, being there before and being there after is as significant. Kim Jayne 18:04 Right ,right? There is a, I don't know if a woman would like to join the men's discussion group. I don't even know if I know men are not invited on the March, you know, respectfully not invited. But I don't know if Deborah Law 18:18 Women are not invited to the men's discussion group. That's an interesting question. Well, that was my next question. I was to clarify who was invited. Kim Jayne 18:26 Yeah, everyone is invited. We need support from everyone, including men, but we would like to march with women only. You know, it's time that we were protecting ourselves and looking around and knowing we're solely responsible for your sister next to you, and that there are no in fact, we've requested female police officers and trying to do the whole thing and, and, you know, for hundreds of years, women have supported men off to whatever they go off to. And I think it's our turn, you know, to feel that support. And I think men should come and stay and talk about it and just talk about the issue of being left. You know, not that it's bad. They've got a thing to do. They've got the majority of the work to do. Deborah Law 19:18 So, in fact, while women are marching, men are having, Kim Jayne 19:21 yeah, Raven is heading that up Deborah Law 19:22 house is facilitating some kind of discussion group for the men who are interested in participating, Kim Jayne 19:27 right? Deborah Law 19:27 Excellent. I do think it's, I agree with you in terms of the importance of that. The question of, why are you alone when you're with a group of women is always one that leads me to want to scratch someone's eyes out in a certain way. Deborah Law 19:41 I never felt that. Deborah Law 19:44 I certainly have never felt alone. But it's always it's always an interesting question. I can be with a group of seven women, and somebody came up to me, (are you?) Why are you out alone tonight? Pardon me. But I do think a point that you mentioned is we're stressing in terms of a non-violent response to violence, which I know is one of the basic themes of the Take Back the Night March. Kim Jayne 20:07 We're still believing in it. You know, it's it's hard to, it's hard not to carry a 38 in my purse when somebody's trying to grab me. Or, you know, when someone comes home drunk and mad, it's hard not to, you know, resort to violence. And a lot of violence, I really believe, is in self-defense. But tonight we do. I mean, on the 13th, we will have a chance to remain non-violent. You know, that issue is constantly debated, and I'm sure you don't want to go that deep into it, but the 13th is completely non-violent, peaceful, Deborah Law 20:52 Gentle, strong, Kim Jayne 20:55 Loud, Deborah Law 20:58 And again, to emphasize, where is it going to be? Kim Jayne 21:02 It's Benton Park, and that's on the corner of Jefferson and Arsenal, South City. Yeah, you'll find it. You'll definitely see people won't be lost. Deborah Law 21:15 It is the building there is the Cherokee Recreation Kim Jayne 21:18 That's where the child care is going to be. Deborah Law 21:21 Okay, and I know it is on a bus line. (Yes.) Great. If anybody has any questions, can they use that same number? Kim Jayne 21:30 Yeah, please give me a call. 531-5444. Deborah Law 21:35 Great. Well, you know you had mentioned self-defense as a part of the program. And I know, in terms of any long range perspective that clearly, we want to be taking back every night. Kim Jayne 21:47 Right, and the days. Deborah Law 21:48 And the days and the mornings and the evenings. Do you know of other activities or classes that are happening in the area? Part of it is a personal reference in terms of, I think one can act in self-defense and still consider themselves non-violent. But I mean in terms of self-defense, or is that going to be something that is going to be talked about that night, in terms of, if women are interested in pursuing classes and self-defense, where those opportunities may be? Kim Jayne 22:18 Yeah, there's going, there's going to be a list of resources, varied list. And the woman speaking, I'm sure, can direct us. I'm think she is a an instructor, so she should know. Deborah Law 22:33 Great. And do you know, has there been any talk about any kind of mobile patrols? I mean, I know that more and more groups community, certainly, neighborhoods, are doing some mobile patrols, and some of those concepts I have some real problems with. But then groups like Pink Panthers, which lesbians and gay men who are out as a presence in a neighborhood where there has been a great deal of gay bashing, or the guardian angels or things like that. You know, has there been any discussion of anything like that in St. Louis in time? Kim Jayne 23:05 We last year after the March, when we were reevaluating everything that's, that's an idea that was discussed. I mean, my ideal, you know, dream type of thing which you could be acted upon was to have somewhat of a phone tree or something for women who are attacked, I don't know, either on their on the street or in their home, but I mean, if you could mobilize 500 women to address an issue, which women mobilized in St. Louis for different areas like that, but I think that it could be somewhat of a thought provoking activity. You know, if 500 of them are going to show up, maybe ought to be a little nicer. Deborah Law 23:55 May want to think about this, right? Well, it's hard for me to believe that our time is over. I really thank you. Thank you here and for all the work that you're doing. Kim Jayne 24:05 Yeah, you too. Deborah Law 24:07 And I will say, Here's to a strong and successful event. So women unite. Take Back the Night. Come March on October 13, again, the events begin at 6:30pm at Benton Park, which is at the corner of Jefferson and Arsenal, together, and only together can we will we make any difference? Do you want to give us your phone number again? Very quickly? Kim Jayne 24:33 531-5444. Deborah Law 24:35 Great. Thanks again, Kim, and thanks for tuning in to Joy 96 and Lambda Reports. This is Deborah Law. Transcribed by https://otter.ai