Charles Koehler 0:00 I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a weekly program by and for the St. louis lesbian and gay community. Privacy. It's a concept that conjures up thoughts of civil liberties, freedom and the Constitution. It's a notion that affects every person, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, age, political background, or degree of physical ability. Joining us this morning to talk about privacy, civil rights and responsibilities of citizens is Brad Smith. Brad is the Administrative Director of Privacy Rights Education Project, also known as PREP, a St. Louis area nonprofit educational and active organization. Brad just what is PREP and what it's all? What? What's it all about? Brad Smith 0:52 The Privacy Rights Education Project, Charles is an organization, St. Louis based, that was established in 1986, and it works to confront unreasonable governmental restriction and intrusions into the private lives and personal decisions of individuals. So basically, we do lobbying work and educational work on a whole series of privacy issues, and that constitutes issues concerning sexuality, we support an individual's right to make responsible personal sexual choices, also reproduction and parenting. We support freedom of choice and reproductive decisions and equal consideration for lesbians and gays in the areas of custody, adoption and foster care. We also have become very involved in AIDS legislation, in opposing anti-cohabitation ordinances that prohibit people unrelated by blood or marriage from living together, and we oppose any type of routine governmental collection of information about personal behavior or political activities or reading and viewing habits. So Charles, we cover the whole privacy Gambit. Charles Koehler 2:04 Okay. And we're talking about, again, concepts that affect more than the person who might be lesbian or gay, for certain. Brad Smith 2:12 Absolutely, and just in the case of our pro-choice work that we're working on this year, we have a whole series of bills that have been spearheaded by the pro-choice forces in the state of Missouri, and we are supporting them full force. And certainly this applies, these types of bills apply to women who are married and unmarried, heterosexual women, homosexual women. Again, this organization is not does not restrict itself to gay and lesbian rights. It covers the whole gamut of privacy issues. Charles Koehler 2:57 And also, I might mention that PREP, Privacy Rights Education Project, has been very favorably supported by the St. Louis Post Dispatch, the Riverfront Times, and a number of other very mainstream organizations, including religious organization. So it's very grassroots and has some very solid, responsible support from the community as a whole. Brad Smith 3:21 Right. Right now on our work to repeal Missouri's sexual misconduct law, we, in 1989 initiated a drive, a petition drive, at the National Day of Mourning that was held on the old courthouse steps In St. Louis. And as a result of that petition drive and endorsement drive, we have received over 75 endorsements from organizations, religious organizations, newspapers and grassroots organizations, not for profit organizations all across the state of Missouri. These include the ACLU, the Missouri Bar, the American Friends Service Committee and a variety of well-founded groups who believe in the calls and the causes that we are pushing for. Charles Koehler 3:46 Some very fundamental concerns for everyone. You had mentioned, one of the concerns that PREP is currently involved with is the health care surrogacy concern. Why is this an issue for PREP and for lesbians and gays in particular? Brad Smith 4:30 Well, the health care surrogacy legislation this year Charles Koehler 4:34 What is that all about anyway? Brad Smith 4:36 This bill is basically an attempt to allow a person, an individual, who is incapacitated, the opportunity before they become incapacitated, of course, to assign a healthcare surrogate, an individual who'll make decisions on the incapacitated individual's behalf. Charles Koehler 4:55 Almost overtones er of Nancy Cruzan, Brad Smith 4:58 Absolutely. Charles Koehler 4:59 Exactly what we're talking about, Brad Smith 5:00 Absolutely, this legislation became such a hot issue specifically because of Nancy Cruzan' s decision, a Missouri woman who was rendered comatose as a result of an automobile accident in 1983 and a feeding and hydration tube was inserted into her and her parents, for the longest time, have been fighting a battle in the court systems in order to clearly be assigned as a surrogate, as decision makers for absolutely for her health care predicament. And of course, she'd been in a persistent vegetative state all this time for seven years. Charles Koehler 5:37 Yeah, for seven years. Okay. Brad Smith 5:47 Right. And finally, the Crusans won, as you are well aware, two weeks ago, the right to remove Nancy Crusan's feeding tube and hydration tube? Well, it's a frontery to privacy rights to an own individual's desire to assign someone to make health care decisions for them to not be allowed to do so. Charles Koehler 6:16 In other words, as the law stands right now, the State is saying that they have the sole determining power in the absence of the person's own ability to make that decision. Brad Smith 6:28 Right. Right now, the courts have a large role to play in the decision-making. The hospitals have a large role to play in the decision making. But as far as legislation is concerned right now, there are no clearly defined parameters upon which a person can assign a health care surrogate. There are such things as as you well know, as powers-of-attorney, but hospitals do not have to honor a power-of-attorney. The power of attorney, of course, is the assignment of an individual to make decisions for a person, but it does not carry enough legal standing with it in order for a hospital to have to comply to that power, so that, still, even with a power-of-attorney being assigned, legal battles can continue for months and years, while the person remains in a vegetative state, or while a person who it just has become incapacitated is needing an emergency decision made for them. Charles Koehler 7:31 That's the flip side, that that someone who who's unable to do have their life continued on and have medical decisions made, that someone who's perfectly capable of doing that and does well know the person's wishes and discuss with the person everything else, that their their hands are tied right. Brad Smith 7:51 Right. As the legislation stands right now, someone could be on the operating table, the emergency room table, bleeding to death, and a legal battle would have to be waged in the court system before a clear decision could be made. Now that is not in the individual's own well-being, Charles Koehler 8:12 Right. And this is something that a person doesn't have to be lesbian or gay for this to happen to unless you're married or unless you're a minor and have a guardian or a parent to make those decisions. You're sort of out there on your own and at the at the at the mercy, I guess, of the state, and the decision that the state or the hospital makes Brad Smith 8:33 Absolutely. What this legislation has been spearheaded, as I said before, by the Missouri Bar, and we have jumped on the bandwagon because we see what has happened in the last seven years with the Crusan case again, as an effrontery to privacy, particularly in the areas, Charles Koehler 8:53 not only to privacy, but just human dignity, Brad Smith 8:55 Absolutely. In the area, in the area of gay and lesbian rights, of course, we would like to have the rights to assign our lovers, our partners, Charles Koehler 9:09 or whoever we choose, Brad Smith 9:11 Whoever we choose. It might be a family member, it might be a friend, but certainly, we'd like to have that right and freedom to assign an individual to serve as our surrogate. And that's particularly why gay and lesbian activists are interested in this legislation. But as you referred to before, this is a human rights and human dignity issue, and it's not a gay and lesbian issue or a women's issue or an African-American issue. It is just simply the right thing to do. Charles Koehler 9:39 For human beings, Brad Smith 9:40 Right. Charles Koehler 9:43 So what's being planned for promoting a change in this, the current state of affairs? Brad Smith 9:52 Well, Charles, you know that on January the 23rd we are having our Lobby Day. The Privacy Rights is having its Lobby Day. Charles Koehler 10:00 What is a what is a lobby day? That, what is that? That concept. Brad Smith 10:05 That is a day that is set aside during the legislative session where individuals concerned with the series of issues, particularly in our case, privacy issues, can convene in Jefferson City at the State House, in order to simply talk with their legislators and express their opinions about these privacy issues, and try to get some insight from their legislators of their opinions, of their stances on their issues, and then simply to answer the questions. Charles, by going and talking to legislators by lobbying the legislators, this process carries a tremendous amount of weight. Charles Koehler 10:49 But don't, don't the the representatives already know the issues? Why is it important to go to them and talk to them in person? Brad Smith 10:55 Well, surprisingly, not all the representatives know all of the issues. One reason it's very important to talk to the legislators is simply to present them with some background information they may not be aware of. Legislators are inundated with materials. They can't possibly read it all, but when they have a one on one meeting with a constituent, a constituent being an individual voter in their district Charles Koehler 11:23 That they represent. Brad Smith 11:24 That they represent, that carries, it makes a difference. They hear a more personal opinion, a more personal insight of that particular issue. In our case, they hear how laws that counter privacy rights affect us individually, Charles Koehler 11:47 as they are on the book right now Brad Smith 11:49 as they are on the book, and that can hearing that story from an individual can affect a legislator's decision tremendously. And the importance of having a lobby day is not that the legislator just hears this from one person, but they hear it from a multitude of people. They hear it from a group of people. And the more people that show up for the Lobby Day, the more power we carry, and the more persuasion we have, such that the legislator's decision is might be altered in favor of the pieces of legislation that we are supporting now. Charles Koehler 12:26 Isn't this whole concept of going to Jefferson City, getting in a bus or driving there and to talk to your representative sort of a radical act? Isn't, isn't this? Is this going to be like a political demonstration or protest? What? Brad Smith 12:40 It's nothing really radical at all. I mean, it's what our founding forefathers and foremothers intended when the Constitution was written, and that is that there would be government by the people, for the people, and by all people. And so lobbying, going and talking to legislators and persuading legislators of these issues is simply a way of legislators hearing the voice of all these people. Charles Koehler 13:07 It's about as American as apple pie, motherhood and American flag. Brad Smith 13:12 Absolutely nothing radical at all. It's It's like sitting down when I talk to people about lobbying, I find the best thing to do is for a person to be themselves, just to sit down and have the conversation with their legislator, as if I were right now having a conversation with you very relaxed. Maybe ask find out from the legislator their own interest, the particular issues that they're interested in, and then follow up with the issues that the individual is interested in. It's a very, very simple process, and as I said before, it carries a tremendous amount of weight. Charles Koehler 13:54 Something that our listeners might not realize is it's the whole concept of lobbying by individuals is something that goes on all the time, Brad Smith 14:04 Right. Charles Koehler 14:04 across the country and everywhere. Brad Smith 14:07 And there are many forms of lobbying, I mean, sitting down one on one with the legislator is one form, making an appointment beforehand to sit down one on one with the legislator, but calling the legislator and expressing views over the phone or writing a letter to a legislator. It's common knowledge in political circles that one letter from a constituent represents four votes, so that actually meeting with the legislator even carries more power and more votes. Charles Koehler 14:38 So there's some some real power, some real tangible good, measurable good, that can be done by people going to Jefferson City, meeting in person with their representatives. We're not talking about, as you said, anything radical, anything that's un-American, anything that is something that shouldn't be done. It's something that that our forefathers had intended to be done. Brad Smith 15:03 That's correct, and we're doing our American duty, you could say, by Charles Koehler 15:07 being patriotic, Brad Smith 15:08 Right. Charles Koehler 15:09 It is. Brad Smith 15:09 by fulfilling this mission. The issues on January the 23rd that we specifically are going to be lobbying for is repeal of Missouri sexual misconduct law. Again, we're going to try to convince our legislators in a concerted way that the Missouri sexual misconduct law is an infringement on the rights of all individuals, particularly gay and lesbian persons who wish to express themselves in an intimate way to persons of the same sex. Charles Koehler 15:39 I might also add that repeal of this law has received very strong support by among other other people, the St Louis Post Dispatch, they come up very strongly in terms of repeal of this law, Brad Smith 15:51 Right. This particular effort has got a lot of a lot of backing right now. As well, another issue that is really heating up right now is we are trying to create a hate crimes statistics reporting bill that will include sexual orientation as a protected category, and that is specifically to report the number of hate crimes that are committed against not only gays and lesbians, but the elderly women, people according to their race, religion, color, ethnic background, because of their disability or perceived disability. There are a whole variety of groups we're trying to include In this legislation, so we'll also be lobbying on that particular bill and sharing our insights, our feelings on that. Okay, so far, we mentioned about the the sexual misconduct law, the hate crime statistic bill, what else? Right? Again, we're going to have a big push for the health care surrogacy bill, okay? And we are going to be presenting quite a bit of material on reproductive rights on specific bills that we won't push through the legislature this year. Charles Koehler 17:11 Tell us a little bit more about those. Brad Smith 17:13 The Medical Access Act is a bill which will allow women to have abortions in publicly funded facilities, or private facilities which receive public funding, which are assisted by public employees, for two reasons. One is that the woman suffers from a high risk medical condition for which her physician recommends that a therapeutic abortion be performed for reasons of health and safety. And the second reason is that the fetal, excuse me, the fetus, has a lethal abnormality, which will result in intrauterine or neonatal death, that is death within the uterus or death at the time of birth. And this medical Access Act, of course, is one that we are in favor. Again, this is so important because it countering this type of legislation is an infringement on the rights of choices, on the right of woman to make an individual, private and personal choice, Charles Koehler 18:22 And in this case, the two examples that you're giving, we're talking about the health and life of the woman, Brad Smith 18:30 Right. Charles Koehler 18:31 that's at stake here, Brad Smith 18:32 Right. Charles Koehler 18:32 And right now, if I understand correctly, current Missouri law does not protect a woman in those two instances. Is that correct? Brad Smith 18:41 Right? Again, there's not. The state of Missouri does not allow for clear federal funding or public funding of abortions when a woman's life is in risk. And again, that is a horrible a frontery to an individual's choice. Charles Koehler 19:01 An aside. I wonder if the same legislation would be in existence, if, if a man's life were equally at risk at time of the woman's pregnancy, if he could lose his life, if the laws would be the same. That's just an aside, but I think it's something to reflect on. Brad Smith 19:18 Right, with so many legislators across the country being male-dominant, we often have to wonder if, in fact, the laws would not be quite a bit different with this particular issue. Charles Koehler 19:31 If they knew that they could be dead, Brad Smith 19:33 Right. If they knew that they if their situations were the ones that they were carrying the fetuses Charles Koehler 19:38 Exactly. Brad Smith 19:40 Several other issues, Charles right quick, that we are working on are some aids legislation. We won't increase funding for AIDS research and for AIDS facilities to be established throughout the state. Charles Koehler 19:53 And I understand that the funds are at least potentially out there. We're not talking about. Necessarily increasing taxes or anything else, but reallocation of existing funds. Here is what we're Brad Smith 20:04 Right. When so many monies in the state are spent on the military, on penitentiaries, we certainly can reallocate some funds and put our priorities in better places, and that that is exactly what we're what we're talking about, what we're pushing for is prioritizing our ethical mandates in the state of Missouri. As well, we are going to be working to establish a privacy amendment to the Missouri State Constitution. Representative Sheila Lampy is introducing this amendment, which is a general statement, which establishes that Missouri individuals, Charles Koehler 20:53 the current Missouri law doesn't have any provision for privacy. Brad Smith 20:57 It does not, which is Charles Koehler 20:59 not to mention that people have the right to privacy in Missouri Brad Smith 21:02 absolutely, absolutely, Charles Koehler 21:04 I think that's something that most of our listeners have always assumed, that their privacy is protected, but that's something that we're finding out that isn't protected, Brad Smith 21:14 Right. If a person ends up in a court of law and there has been an infringement on their personal privacy. There's not really anything that the individual can do. There's, of course, there's some things that they can do, but there's no constitutional amendment or no constitutional mandate that the person can fall back on for coverage or for protection. So this general statement would simply establish that Missouri individual should have a right to privacy and rather radical notion. Well, it's not. The problem is that that is not rather radical. It's being facetious. Yeah, it's, it's quite it's, it's quite a simple type of amendment. And it's, it's something that you would assume, as you said before, would already be as a part of the Constitution to make sure that a person's privacy rights would not be allowed to be invaded. Constitutionally. Charles Koehler 22:20 That's not the case. Brad Smith 22:21 What what we're hearing is some opposition is, is that many people believe that bill should be introduced in the law that dress address every single specific privacy problem. But the reason we're pushing for a general privacy amendment is simply because you can't always address every single problem that crops up and push a bill through the legislature and hope that it becomes law that is not realistic. And also, those who are not protected by any other statute are automatically protected by a general privacy amendment. So if there's not a law that already exists, exists out there in the process of trying to create these laws, then a general privacy amendment allows for an individual be to be protected. So this particular piece of legislation is extremely important. It is, it is a very general, blanket way that the Constitution can't assure that a person's privacy rights are protected. Whatever those rights are, whether it's it's, whether it's the intrusion of government into a person's political habits, whether it is the investigation of state agents into the personal lives of individuals, whatever choices that we make as individuals. We certainly want some type of constitutional protection to allow us the freedom to have those choices. Charles Koehler 24:00 Because without that freedom, then there is no real freedom of choice. Brad Smith 24:04 Well, there's no freedom of choice, and one of the things that PREP has always stood for is that this country is stronger because of individual diversity, and the pluralism, and the society, that that, in fact, makes this society stronger. It makes it a healthier society. It makes a more integrated society. That is what America is. It is the great melting pot. And if we don't create laws and we don't add amendments to our Constitution and we don't push for our privacy rights, we are going to continue to see an erosion of these very things that allow us to be a strong country. Charles Koehler 24:41 The very things that our nation was built upon. Absolutely. Exactly. We've got about three minutes left here. What other concepts do we need to talk about, or what needs to be done for the persons interested in participating in the Lobby Day. Brad Smith 25:04 Okay. Charles Koehler 25:05 Once again, it's Wednesday, January the 23rd. Brad Smith 25:09 Right. Charles Koehler 25:10 Okay, coming up real soon. Brad Smith 25:11 Which is coming up very, very soon. What people should do is they should call the office at 862-4900, area code 314, in order to get information from us about the Lobby Day. We are doing several things in concert with making this Lobby Day happen on January the 13th, we are having a Lobby Day training session. That Lobby Day training session is taking place from 2 to 5 pm at the Lashley Branch Public Library at 4537 West Pine in St. Louis. Also on the morning of the 23rd there's a bus that's going to be going. We are organizing a bus to Jefferson City so that we can all be together and kind of review some of the issues that we're going to be pushing on January the 23rd. Charles Koehler 26:05 That just makes it a lot easier for people that don't want to drive down there, although they could drive if they wanted to. But the bus is really a convenience. Brad Smith 26:12 The bus is convenient and it also gives us an opportunity to share our insights and our views, our common views, as we attempt to make a change in the legislature. Again, for those who cannot attend Lobby Day, it would be important for them to determine who their legislators are by simply calling the League of Women Voters at 727-VOTE, finding out who their representative is, finding out who their senator is, and then calling them or writing them and let them know their their their interest, their concerns about privacy rights for all persons. So there's many opportunities that people can can join in, in order to make this Lobby Day, not just a day, but a whole Lobby Month, a whole a whole lobby session where we continue to have our voices heard throughout the legislative session. Charles Koehler 27:07 We're talking, once again, about issues that go far beyond concerns of lesbians and gays. We're talking about human issues. We're talking about issues that are very fundamental to our the whole concept of what democracy is all about. Got one minute left, Brad. Brad Smith 27:28 Ok. to speak. Well, I would like to give a few more details about the lobby day training session on January the 13th, on that day, at two o'clock at the Lashley Branch Public Library. We are going to be talking about each one of these specific issues in detail and about effective ways of lobbying, how to approach your legislator, what to dress like, how to make them feel comfortable, and how to be comfortable yourself, how to be convincing. Always to say thank you when you leave. Always to be very honest about your own views and speak from the heart. And so I think that the most important thing that folks can do between now and January the 23rd is try to make it to the Lobby Day training session. If that's not possible, certainly, lobbying is a simple enough process where all you have to one has to do is call us on the phone at 862-4900, and we'll get them a packet of material about the Lobby Day. Charles Koehler 28:28 Great. Brad, thanks for being with us this morning. And I encourage our listeners to become involved with Privacy Rights Education Project. They've probably done more in the past few years than most any other organization in St. Louis to create change, very much needed change. If you, our listeners, would like to know more about the Privacy Rights Education Project, just call weekdays once again at 862-4900 that's 862-4900, or write to PREP at Post Office Box. 24106, St. Louis, Missouri, 63130 that's PREP, Post Office Box, 24106, St. Louis, 63130. Hope to see you all on Lobby Day, January 23. Until next week. This is Charles Koehler. Tune us in again next week, same time, same station. Transcribed by https://otter.ai