Charles Koehler  0:01  
I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a weekly program by and for the St. Louis area lesbian and gay community. It's been said that our nation, our very community, is at war with AIDS, and one segment that's been hit particularly hard by this epidemic is the African American community. with us this morning to talk about AIDS and the African American St Louis population is community leader and educational coordinator of Baba. That's Blacks Assisting Blacks against AIDS. We welcome to lambda reports. Erise Williams. Good morning, Erise. Good morning. Just what is facing the St Louis African American community?

Erise Williams  0:46  
An epidemic that has the potential to, I guess, what, for lack of a better word, rid our community of a lot of people. Right now, I guess the toughest thing that we're dealing with is the ignorance, or, you know, the ignorance we have about that disease. A lot of African Americans still think that we are immune to it, and our thrust at BABA is to get the education information out there on prevention, and to get the message out that we are not immune to, you know, to the virus, and to clear up any other misconceptions, you know, that we have.

Charles Koehler  1:33  
If we take just a short look at some of the statistics that are out there, the cold, hard facts, it's scary. It really is.

Erise Williams  1:41  
Yes, it is. 

Charles Koehler  1:42  
We're talking about rates of infection that are, what, twice that in the black, black community as it is?

Speaker 1  1:49  
Right, right, in the average community. This, I guess the scariest fact for me is the the increased number of African American women, you know, who are being infected with, you know, with the disease, uh,and this is scary, because in the African American community, the women have been the caretakers and the supporters, you know, and it's like now, now, at a time when so many African American men are being infected with this disease, and African American women have taken on the responsibility, you know, to care for their loved ones, who's going to take care of the caretakers? 

Charles Koehler  2:27  
Exactly, because now the caretakers are the rate of infection among African American women is, is is staggering. 

Erise Williams  2:36  
Yes, it is. 

Charles Koehler  2:37  
It's growing. And so basically, what you're talking about is removing some of the very strength in the very foundation of what's keeping the African American society together. Yeah, together, we're talking about some very serious stuff here. 

Erise Williams  2:58  
Yes, we are. 

Charles Koehler  3:00  
And I think one of the, the, the saddest things, is that not enough people are listening.

Erise Williams  3:07  
Yeah, yeah. That is it. I guess. The fact is, the fact that right now, the only thing that we have to deal with this deadly virus is education, you know, on prevention. You know exactly what is safe sex? You know, what's safe, what's not safe, what you can do to prevent, you know, becoming infected with, you know, with the virus. And it's really simple, you know, it's nothing really difficult about, you know, wearing a condom, you know, or not doing certain things. There's nothing really difficult about that. It's just, I guess, the thing we have to deal with is we're talking about a behavior change, you know. And behaviors are hard to change, you know, especially when people have practiced a certain behavior for a long time, it becomes a way of life, and now all of a sudden, we're asking them to take a 360 degree turn, you know, and make a change. So that's going to be a that's an ongoing thing with us.

Charles Koehler  4:06  
But that, that change that you talk about, it could mean the matter of survival. 

Erise Williams  4:13  
Yes, yes, it could. And when you look at it like that, you realize how important it is, you know, to make that change.

Charles Koehler  4:21  
Just why was BABA formed, and what does BABA do? How did you get involved?

Erise Williams  4:25  
Okay, well, BABA was formed by four African American men who saw that other AIDS service organizations were not really addressing the needs of African American people. You know, when it came to AIDS.

Charles Koehler  4:43  
What do you mean by that? Now, they were providing 

Erise Williams  4:47  
They were providing services, right? But I guess, I guess the whole thing goes back to this, this peer group kind of thing. You know, African American people have, haven't, don't have great access to, you know, medical opportunities that our society offers. And some of them, let's just say some of us shun away, you know, from, you know, approaching, you know, medical facilities, especially those that are run by the government, you know. And you know, to listen to a white person say, Well, I can help you do this, or I can help you do that, you know, or you have tested HIV positive, you know, it's just another negative thrust coming from the white society, you know, I think it's, I think it's a great difference when some when you have someone who has been where you have been, and who looks like you 

Charles Koehler  5:42  
Can speak to you. 

Erise Williams  5:44  
Right, and who can speak to you and understand where you're coming from at that makes a great difference, you know. And as hard as the other AIDS service organizations was trying or are trying, I should say, they weren't really, you know, fulfilling a lot of the needs, you know that were there. You know, they weren't really going into the community and telling people this is what you can do to prevent, you know, they came after, after you after an individual would be infected, you know, then you would go to them, you know. But our whole thing is, let's avoid the infection to begin with..

Charles Koehler  6:19  
Okay, so in short, kind of what you're saying is that BABA speaks to and from the African American community 

Erise Williams  6:27  
Exactly. And your other question, how 

Charles Koehler  6:30  
because of that, there's a very good likelihood that you can be much more effective than someone who's not 

Erise Williams  6:36  
someone who's from the outside,

Charles Koehler  6:37  
 from that, that community

Erise Williams  6:38  
Right? Exactly. As far as your other question, how I got involved, I really became, well, I have to admit that I was a victim of ignorance when this whole aids issue came about. And that's when I was, the year I graduated from high school, back in 84, that's when we start hearing a lot about, you know, there's this disease out, and I too, believe, like so many other African Americans, that it was just a white gay disease, you know, I, you know, I always felt that it's something I didn't have to worry about. 

Charles Koehler  7:09  
Thank God. That's one thing, everything you have to worry about. That's one thing you don't have to worry about. 

Erise Williams  7:13  
But as time went on, I learned that it was something I had to worry about because my friends and my associates, you know, were dying, people I graduated from high school with. You know, I'm only 25 years old, and only been out of high school for like, six years. So we're talking people who were dying at 19, 20, 21, 22. I recently lost a very close friend this January, this past, January first. And I think his his death, really hit home with me. You know, that this is a very serious issue, and it just so happened around the same time when I wanted to do something, you know, I saw an ad in the paper, you know, about an organization that was looking for an educational coordinator, you know, to go out into the community and educate the community, you know, you know, on the virus. I personally have always done what I could do to educate myself on it, you know, be it reading or attending seminars or whatever, you know, or workshops, you know. I, you know, I always did that. And my friends always knew they wanted, if they had a question, who they could go to, you know. So I was already sort of like playing that role, you know, but not officially, you know, but among the people that I knew, you know. I, I was the educator. So I saw this as I saw this as an opportunity to really get involved, you know. And it feels good to to know that I'm doing something to help my people.

Charles Koehler  8:40  
True benefit 

Erise Williams  8:41  
Yes.

Charles Koehler  8:42  
to your community. What's been the response? 

Erise Williams  8:47  
The response has been good, for the most part, not all of it has been good. I guess the most disappointing thing that I've dealt with within the past two months that I've been involved is the fact that we tried to get the African American churches involved. We wanted to sponsor a AIDS Christian awareness workshop, okay? And we sent correspondence, and we, you know, to the African American churches, to about 300 churches, and we asked them to send at least one representative, so that, that way, there would be a person in the congregation who everyone could identify with, so that if they had any questions or wanted to know, we can get some information, they could go to that person. Unfortunately, though, that response from the churches was, you know, was not a good one, and we had to cancel that. You know, that activity and their their reasoning was, there aren't any gay people in their congregation, and you and I both know that this disease does not discriminate. It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight.

Charles Koehler  9:48  
But theirreasoning, though, was that they had, they still were coming from the point of it being a gay disease 

Erise Williams  9:54  
a gay disease, right. 

Charles Koehler  9:55  
not a disease that affects human beings no matter what. What they come from.

Erise Williams  10:00  
Right, and they did not want to be associated with BABA because they perceived BABA as a gay organization, and the church that was co-sponsoring it with us, they did not want to be associated with that church because they saw that church as a gay or a gay church. And that really upset me, because, you know, having worked in the field for the last two months, I really realized that my people are dying, you know, and yet, you know, the Church, which has been a very strong foundation in the African American community, 

Charles Koehler  10:30  
extremely strong

Erise Williams  10:31  
Yeah, and it wants to bury its head in the sand. When we most

Charles Koehler  10:35  
By burying its head in the sand, it's burying many of its people

Erise Williams  10:39  
along with it, you know, 

Charles Koehler  10:40  
in avery real sense, 

Yes, it is. I you know, that's … Go ahead. 

Erise Williams  10:44  
And what I predict happening is, when they look around in the choir stands and there's nobody singing, and there's nobody preaching from the pulpits, and there's nobody sitting out there, on Sunday morning, they're going to come knocking on our doors saying, Help us. Please help us, you know, but we want to do something before it gets to that point. 

Charles Koehler  11:03  
And when it gets to that point, it's way too late, because you're talking about a whole other part of the population that's already infected, that it's not showing any symptoms, then it's it's truly, truly too late, exactly in a very tragic way.

Erise Williams  11:19  
Yes it is. Yes it is. And health professionals are predicting that here in St Louis, before it gets better, it's going to get worse. 

Charles Koehler  11:27  
I think we we know we can count on that.

Erise Williams  11:30  
Yeah, especially in an African American community. Because, first, you know, especially among African American men, because, and I've mentioned this to you before, a lot of African American men, even though they may be gay or bisexual, they don't consider themselves that. You know, a lot of Africa don't

Charles Koehler  11:48  
They identify themselves. Instead, that's not part of their their consciousness at all, 

Erise Williams  11:52  
Right. 

Charles Koehler  11:52  
It's just something that they might do.

Erise Williams  11:54  
Right, exactly. And a lot of African American women think, because they have a man, there is no way he could be messing around with other men. So the whole idea of of that possibility, you know, is not even in their thoughts.

Charles Koehler  12:07  
And in reality, that the virus doesn't care how you identify yourself at all. It doesn't discriminate at all. All it cares about is, if you're infected, you're infected, infected, however you got infected. Yeah, and, where does the whole issue of IV drug use fit into the picture? Because, you know, for any population, it's not just again, it's it's definitely not just a gay disease, 

Erise Williams  12:33  
Right. 

Charles Koehler  12:33  
It's a human disease, and one mode of transmission is heterosexually, and the other is through IV drug use.

Erise Williams  12:41  
That's right. And the use of IV drugs, you know, is on the increase in the African American community as times become harder, you know, because, you know, I It has always been a belief of mine that people do drugs, you know, as an escape, you know. And as times become harder for African Americans, they are looking for a means of escape, you know.

Charles Koehler  13:09  
And one of the things is that is right now making times harder, and will continue to make it even harder, is the incidence of AIDS, 

Erise Williams  13:18  
That's right. 

Charles Koehler  13:18  
which then fuels additionally. It's an idioms, additional infection, the cycle goes on and on.

Erise Williams  13:27  
And I in, you know, 

And there's, BABA, there, trying to …

Yeah, we, you know, we are trying to tell people how. We're trying to tell and show people how to do the right thing. You know, 

Charles Koehler  13:38  
what is the right thing? 

Erise Williams  13:40  
Doing the right thing is first dealing with the issue of being tested. That's, that's, that's the number one step. And I can tell you personally, you know, from my own personal experience, you know, being tested is not an easy thing. You know, people tell you all the time, you know, go get tested. Go get tested. But that whole tested thing plays a real job on your psyche, you know, going to a health department and sitting there and, you know, and then waiting two weeks for, you know, for results. You know, this like somebody saying, Well, I'm gonna take you in two weeks how much longer you have to live? You know, there's a lot of anxiety, you know, when it comes to testing. So you have to

Charles Koehler  14:20  
even anxiety before that, just to make the decision,

Erise Williams  14:23  
Right. You have to make the decision 

Charles Koehler  14:24  
to get tested. Yeah, let's talk just a little bit about about testing, the the anonymous and confidential test. 

Erise Williams  14:31  
Okay. 

Charles Koehler  14:32  
There's a lot talked about that. If you can make that real clear distinction. 

Erise Williams  14:35  
Okay, the anonymous test is when you go in and to a health facility, you don't even have to necessarily give your name, because they're not going to even use your name. They're going to assign a number to you. You will become that number. Your name is not going to be mentioned at all. So when you call in for results, they don't even give results over the phone, but you know, they call, you make an appointment to go back in, and you're still that number, and so the only way they have to identify you is to that number. 

Charles Koehler  15:08  
There's no linkage at all between the number and the name, it's well, as close to impossible as you get, to never being identified one way or the other what the results are only to yourself.

Erise Williams  15:20  
Right. Confidential testing does involve you know your name, and it's only it only can be given out with your permission. And then I think, if I'm not mistaken, and in some states, only the gov, the federal government, I think, has access to that. The good thing about confidential testing is if you get involved, like, say, for instance, if you get involved in a relationship with someone and you want to prove to that person that you have been tested and you tested negative, you can go back and they can say, Okay, this particular they can look at your files and say, Yes, he did test negative. The only thing about the anonymous test is there's no proof. Because once, once they give you the results, that's it. You know, you don't, they don't even know the number anymore.

Charles Koehler  16:09  
Yeah, the information vanishes into air, 

Erise Williams  16:11  
Right it's gone.

Charles Koehler  16:12  
 I think, though, that the one, one dangerous portion, though, of being tested and then being able to say, well, you know, I tested negative for HIV and or that the AIDS virus and so I don't have it that, though might to some people give the the false security that now they're home free, that they can do anything that they want to, are that, you know, it only takes a look at one slice in time of where you what your status is at that point. 

Erise Williams  16:42  
Right? We always try to encourage people to at least be tested twice, you know, to do a six month follow up after your first test. And if you continue to practice safe sex and, you know, do the right thing, you can after if you test negative a second time, you can pretty much rest assured that you know you're going to be okay, 

Charles Koehler  17:02  
assuming that the other person is … 

Erise Williams  17:03  
Correct. Assuming that the other person, you know, is doing the right thing, and you're doing the right thing by practicing safe sex, you know you can you you are pretty much home free after that. 

Charles Koehler  17:14  
That's great. That's great. What, What's are some of the services that that BABA provides. You talked a little bit about about education and (okay) how do you go about doing that? 

Erise Williams  17:26  
Okay, right now we're working with the St. Louis public schools in their AIDS education program. I've done several presentations at schools, matter of fact I have three of them coming up later on this week. 

Charles Koehler  17:38  
What's been the response to the students? What age range are you talking? 

Erise Williams  17:41  
We're talking middle school. So we're talking like, you know, 12 to 15. 

Charles Koehler  17:46  
What's been the response? 

Erise Williams  17:47  
Pretty good, actually. And to be honest with you, they seem to know more about it than adults do, you know. They seem to be aware of what they shouldn't and shouldn't do more so than adults. I think we, I think society, in society, we always sell our kids short on their knowledge, you know, they're they are pretty smart, and they ask you some questions that, you know, that really stumped me, you know. So, you know, they are thinking about this, that tells me that they are thinking about it, and they're talking about it. 

Charles Koehler  18:17  
It's an extremely important (yeah) start, 

Erise Williams  18:20  
Right, it really is. So, you know, really, to be honest with you, I'm not really worried about them, because I know that at, you know, you know, at their age, they are very impressionable, and if you if they know an authority figure comes in and you're telling them something that could save their life, that's going to stick with them for the rest of their life, you know, it's, I guess it's the older people that I'm worried about, the adults who have, like I said before, lived a certain lifestyle for so long, you know, and who hold hard to misconceptions. You know, those are the things that you know, you know that are hard to change.

Charles Koehler  18:56  
What are, what are some of the, aside from our in addition to education, what are some of the other services that BABA 

Erise Williams  19:03  
Okay, we we publish a quarterly newsletter where we give out information on on the virus, on other services that are available with other AIDS service organizations. We try to network with other AIDS service organizations. We act as a referral service so when people come to us, we can say, well, you know, I can hook you up with, you know, this group that has, you know, money or funding to offer you help in this way. Right now, we're also in the in the process of starting two support groups, one for people who have tested HIV positive, and one for family members of people who have tested HIV positive. And the reason we saw the need for that is because often in our community, people find out two things when an individual tests HIV positive. After they find out an individual has tested HIV positive, they usually find also find out the sexual preference of that individual, you know, at the same time. And that happens a lot to young mothers, you know, of teenagers, you know, they find out, oh, my son, you know, is HIV positive. And then at the same time, he has to tell them, him or her, that, you know, I'm also gay, you know. And that's a double whammy. 

Charles Koehler  20:18  
It's a whole other thing.

Erise Williams  20:20  
Right, a whole other thing. So, and you know. And then often, of course, parents see their gayness as being the reason for them, you know, being positive. And so we are hoping that through the support groups, we can come together, you know, and you know, voice some of those issues and support each other. You know, you know, as you know, as you go through that you know and living and living and living, living with the fact of being HIV positive. Fortunately, now scientists and doctors know enough about the virus where you can do certain things, you know, to lengthen, you know, your lifespan, 

Charles Koehler  20:55  
to the quality of life,

Erise Williams  20:56  
 to the quality of life, or prevent some of those, what we call opportunistic diseases, from even taking place. So being that's another advantage of, you know, being tested, you know, being tested as soon as possible. You know, if you test, if you just so happen to test positive, there are some things you can do. It doesn't mean it's not a death sentence, like most people think.

Charles Koehler  21:15  
That's that's extremely important, because one of the things like you said, that studies have shown the earlier that the disease is caught in its tracks, even before you start showing any symptoms, the greater the quality of your life is, the fewer symptoms you'll have. And it's really something that's really essential. What changes have you seen taking place in the St. Louis African American community around this whole issue of AIDS HIV?

Erise Williams  21:46  
Excuse me, I see a a slow turn around, you know, some people are realizing that, you know, hey, you know, we are, we are at risk for this. 

Charles Koehler  21:59  
But what percentage do you see have that, that realization?

Erise Williams  22:02  
I really can't put a number on it, because, like I said, I only been involved for, you know, a few months, but, but when I say that, I think about some of the people I have approached about doing, you know, outreach work. For an example, I talked to the management at the Cochrane tenant housing. The management there was very responsive, you know, to the idea of going into the community. And now we're in the, you know, we're in the process of setting something up where we can go there on a regular basis and ask, you know, you know, answer any questions the tenants may have, and they see the need, because a lot of their tenants who are there are single mothers, and a lot of these mothers are teenage mothers, and a lot of them have babies who are HIV positive, because they are HIV positive, you know, so they see that the need is there for, you know, for information. And unfortunately, some of the people who live in these housing projects are doing,  are intravenous drug users, you know, and if we can tell them what they can do, you know, to lower their chances. You know, dealing, I guess, guess did just dealing with that, you know, not 

Charles Koehler  23:13  
dealing with the reality situation, situation, 

Erise Williams  23:15  
Right.

Charles Koehler  23:16  
That's what you have to deal with at this point in time.

Erise Williams  23:18  
Right, right and they're, you know, over at Cochrane, they're very responsive, you know, to to our offer for help. And also some of the, we we do some outreach at some of the gay bars, you know, in the community. Now we're starting to do some in some of the heterosexual bars, you know, and their response has been good, (Great.) you know. So I think, I think people are slowly realizing, you know, you know, this is, this is a serious issue. So 

Charles Koehler  23:52  
It's not gonna go away. 

Erise Williams  23:53  
Right. And it's not gonna go away just by burying our heads in the sand.

Charles Koehler  23:57  
We talked a little bit before about the whole role of the churches and how crucial and how central they are to affecting changes in many areas. What would you want to to say to them? What would,

Erise Williams  24:10  
Well, I guess, to just say to them, to put away, to put aside, some of their religious convictions, as far as you know, things you know, what's a sin, what's not a sin. And you know, and their their act of judging people, you know, and what I'm you know, I guess what I'm personally calling for is a call for human compassion. I mean, 

That's where you want to challenge them. 

Right. Because these are people who are dying, regardless of who they are, what they you know, you know, are, what they've done and and even if they want to get religious about it, you know, if they research their Bibles, you know, they would know that their God, or, you know, was a compassionate God himself, you know. And he also says that you. You know before, before you can love me, you have to love your fellow man, you know. And I just don't think that their god is, is the sort of God that would inflict this upon anyway.

Charles Koehler  25:11  
And at the risk of bringing in a negative comparison, but you have the story of Jesus, how he responded to the leper, not, not saying that AIDS is leprosy, but that's the closest thing that I'm aware of. You had a very compassionate person responding in a very positive way, taking a stand that was very unpopular, yes, and you have that as an example right there in the Bible.

Erise Williams  25:35  
Yeah, you do. And that's and that's basically what we're asking the churches to do, you know, to be compassionate, come out and support people. You know, our people are dying, and they're going to need your support. You know, for you know, for a long time, African Americans have supported the church. Now we need its help. So, you know, we're asking for that.

Charles Koehler  26:01  
You talk about education as being the only real weapon we have against AIDS at this point, and what other strategies are being developed by BABA to reach members of your community? Any specifics, any plans for the future? 

Erise Williams  26:17  
Well, right now, we are planning something with the American Red Cross. We pretty much basically want to do what we tried to do with the churches, but we decided to go with the Red Cross because we figured that will lend us some credibility. You know, African Americans are just like anybody else. They believe authority figures, you know. So if the Red Cross comes out and says, you know, I think you should come out and listen to these people. You know, they have something good to offer you. Chances are they're going to come out. 

Charles Koehler  26:46  
Anyone wants to go with somebody with a track record. 

Erise Williams  26:49  
Yes, 

Charles Koehler  26:49  
That's what you're looking for.

Erise Williams  26:50  
Yes, and that's right, and that's what we're working on. Hopefully, by doing that, we can soon develop a track record ourselves, you know, and people in our community would know you got any questions, want any information, need any if you need help, hey, BABA, you know, let's call BABA. You know, I want, for a long time people in the community were, you know, have not been aware of BABA, and we're better, you know, they have been around for several years. But I think part of my responsibility is getting out there in the community and letting people know that you know we do exist,

Charles Koehler  27:24  
And you provide some very much needed services in a community that that reflects society as a whole, very much in need of receiving information. What advice would you give to our listeners in a couple minutes we have left?

Erise Williams  27:42  
As's far as …? 

Charles Koehler  27:43  
As far as the whole issue of a whole issue of AIDS. 

Erise Williams  27:47  
Just clearing your mind first of all, of all the misconceptions you know, of all the things you've heard you know about AIDS, about how you can contract the disease, 

Mosquitoes, and all the … 

Right, door knobs and stuff like that, And and realize the fact that we are not immune to this disease. You know, anyone can get it. It's not, it's not 

Charles Koehler  28:07  
No one's a Superman. 

Erise Williams  28:09  
Right, right. It's not who you are. It's what you do that puts you at risk, you know. So I guess that would be, you know, the message I would really want to get across, you know, into arm yourself with, to arm yourself with the knowledge of prevention, like I mentioned before, it's not really difficult, you know, to do. It's not really hard, you know, to prevent from contracting this disease.

Charles Koehler  28:31  
It's just not only knowing what to do, but doing, 

Erise Williams  28:35  
Doing it 

Charles Koehler  28:36  
what you know right you need to do.

Erise Williams  28:38  
Right. 

Charles Koehler  28:38  
That's the hard part. 

Erise Williams  28:39  
Yeah. 

Charles Koehler  28:41  
Erise, it's been great having you with us this morning. I'd like to wish you the very, very best of in all the work that you and everyone at BABA is doing, it's an extremely important work. 

Erise Williams  28:52  
Thank you. 

Charles Koehler  28:53  
If any of our listeners have any questions or would like to contribute your time or funds, you can contact BABA, that's Blacks Assisting Blacks against AIDS at 367-0191, that's 367-0191, or you can write to BABA at post office box 150531, St Louis, Missouri, 63115, until next week, this has been Charles Koehler for Lambda Reports.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai