Charles Koehler 0:02 I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a weekly program by and for the St. Louis community. You know, it's remarkable how much the Boy Scouts has changed since it was founded by Lord Robert Baden Powell near the turn of the Century. This important organization has helped to mold the character and give opportunities for growth and development to millions of youngsters. Without question, the Boy Scouts has been and will continue to be an important part of the lives of boys in our troubled times. To talk about Boy Scouts and how we can help in this organization is Scout executive of the St. Louis Area Council. Robert Meinholtz. Good morning, Robert, and welcome to Lambda Reports. Robert Meinholtz 0:44 Good morning, Charles. Charles Koehler 0:46 You know, I was a boy scout, as I'm sure many of our listeners were, and I've seen the positive influence it's had on many youngsters. How has scouting changed from when it was first founded by Lord Baden Powell? Robert Meinholtz 1:00 Well, I can say that Scouting has changed and has not changed, the scout oath, the Scout Law, and all of the rudiments of the scouting program and Cub Scout Promise are the same as they've been From their inception, but there have been changes as it relates to some of the merit badges and some of the programs which we have tried to change to become more relevant. Number of years ago, a scout had to earn personal health and public health and pathfinding to be an Eagle Scout. No longer is that required. There are other merit badges that have taken its place. We have space exploration, we have computers, we have personal business, we have labor merit badge. Number of merit badges that are now relevant to today's society but were not current in those days. Charles Koehler 1:45 So it seems that the Boy Scouts has kept up with the changes of today's society, and it's quite a bit different from the days of Lord Baden Powell, although he was quite a visionary and a role model for those who followed him. Can you give us an idea of some of the upcoming events that we have locally? Robert Meinholtz 2:05 Well, Charles, our biggest and first event takes place on Thursday night, September the 26th on that evening, at seven o'clock at over 500 public and private schools and parochial schools in our community, which incidentally, covers St. Louis, St. Louis County and the 11 surrounding Missouri counties. We will open the doors and have scout leaders present to explain the Cub Scout Program, the Tiger Cub program, the Boy Scout program, to parents and their sons so that they will be given an opportunity to learn more about scouting and be given them and giving them an opportunity to join. I hope that any of the parents and young people who are interested in Scouting would join us at one of those schools on Thursday night, September the 26th. The second and probably the most noteworthy program of scouting in our metropolitan area is a program called Scouting for Food. Eight years ago, the Boy Scouts of America in St. Louis determined that there was a major need within our council territories and incidentally throughout the country, that was a number of people who were hungry. The food pantries were desirous of additional food. And we found that hunger is not just local in St. Louis, but it is also in the rural communities within our council territory. And so, with the help of different corporations, each year, the St. Louis Area Council runs what is called Scouting for Food. We go to every household and every home within our territory on November the second, we place a bag there, asking them to the the owners and the people living in those homes to fill that bag for the following Saturday with canned goods. The reason for canned goods is that, number one, it will not break if it's not glass. Number two, it has indefinite shelf life, and we're looking for meals in a can like stew and baked beans and fruit and vegetables. And we come back to scouts and cubs on November the ninth, and we'll pick up all of those cans all over our territory, in St. Louis and St. Louis County, we deliver those to the St. Louis Food Bank, and it is further distributed through the pantries from the St. Louis Food Bank. However, in the other 11 counties, the food collected by Scout troops and cub packs is delivered directly to the pantries within the local area, such as if food is donated in Ironton, Missouri, it's delivered to a local church that has a pantry. It does not come to St. Louis, because the problem of hunger is not just in St. Louis, but throughout our entire territory. This program, when it started, was the only one in the country. Two years later, all of the Boy Scout councils in America started this food campaign based on the St. Louis prototype. Last year we collected more than. 1,000,100 cans of food on that day. That equates to 22,000 cases, incidentally, Charlie and that is 70% of all the protein, which is given away in the local pantries during the winter months and has become a milestone for the food pantries, and we're very pleased with it. It, incidentally, is the largest single one day canned food drive in the entire United States, and has remained that for the last six years. Charles Koehler 5:31 Wow, that's that's very impressive. Well, here's an example right here of how the St Louis area Boy Scouts have a response in responding to changing needs in society, and also how they showed leadership on a nationwide basis. And and we mentioned about the school night on September the 26th. Who all is eligible to become a Boy Scout? What are the requirements? Robert Meinholtz 5:55 Well, I'm glad you asked that question. We have a program called Tiger Cubs. The Tiger Cub program is for young boys who are in the first grade. They come with their parent, or they come with an older brother and sister who has to be 20 years of age or older, or with a grandmother or grandfather or uncle or aunt, and they join the program in a team as a Tiger Cub group. This group meets monthly with all of the adults and all of the youth, and does different activities for for a year. Then starting in the second grade or when a young person reaches young boy reaches seven years of age, he is eligible to join the Cub Scout Program, which everybody in our community, I'm sure is aware of, because we have 22,000 Cub Scouts in St. Louis, and at that program, they attend a weekly den meeting. They go to a monthly pack meeting. There is an adult who runs what we call a den meeting once a week, and the whole family joins together with all the families in all of the dens for a pack meeting once a month to receive badges and to have programs. And then at age 11, anyone can, any boy can join the Boy Scout program. That's the Boy Scout program as we all know it, invented and developed by Lord Baden Powell. And that is the eagle rank, the scout oath, the first class tender foot ranks. And then they get to go camping to our major Scout facilities. Incidentally, we have S bar S Scout Reservation near Farmington, Missouri, where there is 5400 acres of Scout camping territory. And this past summer, well, actually next week, we will be closing down our summer camp, and we've had more than 7000 scouts attend S bar S Scout Reservation in Farmington, Missouri, in Scout troops from all over our council territory. Then we have an Explorer program, which is co-ed, which takes young people, both male and boys and girls who are in high school, and they go into explore post to learn careers first hand. And we have in this council about 8000 young men and women participating in that Explorer Program, which is primarily focused on vocational exploration. So in total, we really have four programs. We have Tiger Cub program, Cub Scout Program, Boy Scouts program, and Explore programs. This past year, this council had over 50,000 youth members in those four programs, but we couldn't do it without adults, and our adult leadership is the key of and volunteers are the key to the entire program, and we have 12,000 men and women registered as scout leaders in one of those four programs, giving leadership and teaching the values that we hope every young person in America knows is a value to grow up and be a better participating citizen in this great nation of ours. Charles Koehler 8:53 That's quite an extensive program, and it seems like it helps the development of youth from the time that they're quite young all the way up until their young adulthood, developing on a number of different levels. Well, how can the adult members of the community participate in the Boy Scouts? What, What opportunities are out there for our listeners? Robert Meinholtz 9:13 Well, we have the opportunity from one end of the spectrum to the other. The easiest opportunity is annually to be a participating member of the United Way and contribute to the United Way, which generates about 29% of our total income. Charles Koehler 9:29 That's a major part of your of the income. And also there the Boy Scouts, I understand locally are major recipients of United Way Fund. Robert Meinholtz 9:39 Yes, we are Charles Koehler 9:40 great, great. And then what other other ways are there? Robert Meinholtz 9:43 Well, in addition to that, if they want to just touch the fringes of it, they can remember that on November 2 to pick up that food bag on their front porch and go down to their local grocer and fill those food bags and put them back on their porch. on November 9. They will then generate for this community some help for a very major need. See, I think school, I think that the Scouting for Food program in itself is important to meet the needs of those who are hungry in our metropolitan area, but almost more important, it begins to teach young people some basic tenets of what happens when they grow up as an adult, and that is that they need to help their neighbor, and they need to help their fellow man, and they need to be part of this society to say, what is my role as an adult to make this a better place to live. Charles Koehler 10:33 Great. Well, it sounds like it teaches people on a number of different levels. And one of the things that I understand that well, with the pressures that face our youth today, with with drug use and school dropout, teen suicide, low self-esteem and alienation from the family, what are some of the values that the Boy Scouts has to offer? Robert Meinholtz 10:59 Well, you're talking to someone who has been in the Boy Scout program for 52 years, who has worked professionally for this great organization for over 37 years. So you're talking to a biased spokesman. However, I can tell you that it teaches young people some very important things to live by. Number one, it teaches young people leadership skills, and I can allude to that in a few minutes. It also teaches them a code of ethics. That code of ethics is the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. I once had a good friend of mine who is a minister here in this community, indicate to me that he resented the Boy Scouts of America. On on a humorous note, he said that he had a number of men in his congregation who were members of his church council, and if he said to them, would you recite in order the the the 10 Commandments? He said, most of them would have difficulty getting all those 10 Commandments. But he said, every one of them who had been brought up in the Scout program, if you would say, Would you give me the scout oath? every one of them could give the Scout Oath, and most of them the Scout Law. Charles Koehler 12:07 Great, great. So it teaches some very fundamental things that, sadly enough, are missing in many family units today, and that's a sense of ethics and sense of right and wrong. Robert Meinholtz 12:23 Well, Charles, the American society is different than it was when I grew up, and I, incidentally, grew up here in St. Louis as a young man, and went to Hamilton Avenue School and learned to ride my first bicycle in Forest Park. It has changed. The American traditional family that I knew and you knew when we grew up is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. The number of working parents, where both parents work is is almost unanimous at this point. There are very few families where one of the breadwinners stays home to raise the family, and so consequently, there's less time for the family to spend with their young people and their children and teach them those ethics that the family has felt important over the years. And it becomes even more essential for organizations like the Boy Scouts to take those young people and try and instill in them those values that the parents, hopefully and we feel are important to growing up and being a well rounded citizen in this society. Charles Koehler 13:25 and being able to make positive contributions. One of the things that I learned as a boy scout is how to get along with others and how to accept people who are different. Because, of course, whenever you're in scouting, in many of these these outings, you're with people from all different backgrounds. Do you feel that that with the the hatred and the prejudice that we see all too frequently in our society, that the Boy Scout teaches kids to respect each other's differences? Robert Meinholtz 13:52 Well, I would certainly hope so. See, when you start with a young man in the Cub Scout or Boy Scout age, there are certain values that they haven't learned yet, having been a member of the US military and having spent a time in the service, I learned one important essential, do not volunteer, and that was taught to me in the military. And number two, don't criticize anybody publicly or criticize what they're doing, because if you do, you may get that job. And so consequently, our young people who grew up don't know those rules yet. And if they go on a camping trip, and the young man that been assigned to buy the food doesn't buy enough food, and they run out in the middle of the camping trip, they impeach that young man immediately. And someone else says, I'll do it. If we were, if that was a group of adults, no one would do it for fear the fact that that individual say, Well, if you think you can do it better, you do it next time. And so consequently, we're teaching the values of being honesty and telling the truth and saying, if you haven't done the job, then then you got to let somebody else do it until we have enough responsibility and trust in you to give you that job back. That's a basic value of growing up, and we hope that scouting offers those values and teaches those values. And of course, the volunteer Scout leaders are the role models that are teaching that to our young people. Charles Koehler 15:15 Great, great. Well, the Boy Scouts of America has been in the press recently, and I'd like to touch on a few of these issues. I understand that a Boy Scout or a Scout leader who is openly gay cannot remain a Scout or a Scout leader. Why is that? Robert Meinholtz 15:30 The national program of the Boy Scouts of America indicates that it is a private organization. There are certain guidelines and our national organization which controls the leadership, not the local Boy Scout Council has indicated that they feel one who is gay is not the role model that they want as a Scout leader of a Scout troop or a Cub pack in the United States. Okay, Charles Koehler 15:54 does this? Does this apply to all Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, or explorers who are gay, or just some of them Robert Meinholtz 16:02 All. Charles Koehler 16:03 Okay, so without exception, if a someone discovers that they're gay, then that applies to them. But with about 10% of the male population as being gay, and I'm sure that Boy Scouts and their leaders represents the population as a whole. That gives us approximately 5000 gay scouts and about 1200 gay or lesbian Scout leaders in the St Louis area. Robert Meinholtz 16:30 No, that is not true. Charles Koehler 16:32 Okay, Robert Meinholtz 16:33 That that is not true. You are putting a percentage on what you say the population, the population across America varies considerably in all of their upbringing and their feelings. It is not true that if you take that percentage, it's the same in every community across America. Charles Koehler 16:51 Okay, so would you concede, though, that there are some gay scouts and gay or lesbian scout leaders in the St Louis area? Robert Meinholtz 16:59 No, I would not. Okay. So, because, if there were the National Council, would remove their membership. Charles Koehler 17:04 Okay. Well, as a footnote, a local Eagle Scout, Rob Schwitz, was recently barred from the Boy Scouts here because he said he was gay. Robert Meinholtz 17:15 You know, Charles, that's not true. That young man is not a member of this council, not involved in the Boy Scouts in St. Louis, and the St Louis Council is not involved in that situation at all. Charles Koehler 17:26 Okay. Okay. Now the Girl Scouts of America has no problem in accepting lesbian girls or Scouts or as scouts or lesbian adults as Scout leaders, and the same also holds with Big Brothers and Big Sister programs across the country. Why do you suppose that there isn't the same degree of acceptance by the Boy Scouts? Robert Meinholtz 17:47 Charles, you're speaking from things I do not know from making those statements. I do not know your background and what you have found out from those organizations, and I don't know whether that's true or false. Charles Koehler 17:57 Okay, well, I've been told that that is from authoritative sources. I've also been assured by the St. Louis office of the United Way, by Charlie White, who's their public relations officer, that recipients of United Way funds do not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. And you'd mention that the Boy Scouts locally receives a large percentage of their backing from the United Way. Any comments on that? Robert Meinholtz 18:24 No, I have no comment. Charles Koehler 18:26 Isn't the Boy Scouts nationally rejecting gays from participating in the boy scouts helping to reinforce stereotypes and prejudices. What message is this sending to Boy Scouts and gay kids. Robert Meinholtz 18:41 I don't have that answer. I I am in charge of taking care of the rules and regulations of the National Council Boy Scouts America, Charles. And if you want to question that, you can talk to the National Council, who have all the guidelines. We do not set the membership requirements, and you are aware of that. Charles Koehler 18:57 I see. We know that that many parents out there hold an unfounded stereotype that their their son might be molested if he had a gay Scout leader. Of course, the Department of Justice and studies by authorities have repeatedly shown that over 90% of all child molesters are indeed straight heterosexuals, not gays or homosexuals. Now I can fully understand why parents have every reason to be concerned about their their children and their safety of their children, and I don't think any of our listeners would want to dispute that concern. But doesn't this stand on gays. Robert Meinholtz 19:41 Charles, you don't understand the Boy Scout Program. Charles Koehler 19:44 Okay. Can you explain it to our listeners? Robert Meinholtz 19:46 The Scout Program is owned by churches. Okay? It's owned by the Scout Troop is owned by a parish or a Lutheran church or a Jewish synagogue. The leadership in that church sets the standards and selects the leadership. The Boy Scouts of America do not select the leadership. That is different from other youth organizations. Therefore, the record comes in and that local parish in any community picks who they feel they want as their leadership. All we do is stamp it if they say that's what it's to be. The major church leadership throughout the country all serve on the national organization, the Boy Scouts America, the top religious and social leaders. Those requirements are have been set, not by a local area, and I cannot dispute anything that you've said, but we have no control of it here, so you're talking to the wrong individual. Charles Koehler 20:42 Who would you suggest that we be talking to? Robert Meinholtz 20:46 suggest that you talk to the national organization. And if you have been watching the news media, they have been on it. Charles Koehler 20:54 The Boy Scout pledge includes a vow to be honest and to tell the truth, and how does this being honest about yourself if you happen to be gay? Robert Meinholtz 21:03 What What says? Give me the scout law that says to be honest and tell the truth? Charles Koehler 21:08 Well, earlier, you referred to the, you know, importance of Robert Meinholtz 21:12 I'm not saying that that's not but you are paraphrasing and twisting the things of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. There is nothing that says specifically what you're talking about. I have no problem with telling the truth, and I think that is part of the Scouting program, but I don't know why you're asking me these questions, because they do not have to do with the local requirements we adopt and follow the national requirements. Charles Koehler 21:37 Let's shift our focus, just for a moment, sure, to a 1987 Federal Health and Human Services study on teen suicide, and this is a particular concern, that concludes that gay teens are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide, and up to 30% of all completed teen suicides are by gay or lesbian teens. They're also more likely to use drugs and drop out of schools. And the study further recommends that schools and, in particular, organizations, and this is from the federal government, their recommendation is that schools and organizations provide a supportive, accepting atmosphere that helps to counter the alienation and rejection these gay kids experience. I'm trying to figure out how the Boy Scouts, who has made changes since its inception and responding to changes in our society. How is the Boy Scouts helping these kids who are clearly and documentedly at risk for teen suicide and dropping out of school and drug use. At the outset, it seems like the Boy Scouts is taking these kids who are at risk and saying the ones who really need help along with everyone else. I mean, gay teens aren't the only ones. There are many, many problems out there facing our kids. But how is the Boy Scouts taking this one small segment and responding to them? It seems like they're saying, we can't help you. Robert Meinholtz 23:17 Charles, again, I think you need to talk to the people that develop the program, develop the guidelines, develop the requirements, and ask them those questions. I have told you twice now that the entire program that we use, we use the national guidelines and follow it. I do not know those answers. I know that we deal with a lot of kids at risk, and there are a lot of kids out there at risk that don't follow the guidelines that you're talking about. And we have a number of Scout troops in North St. Louis. We have a number of Cub packs. Our market share in the metropolitan St. Louis area is about 24% of the total youth members available to join the Scouting program. There are many other worthwhile programs. There are many other groups that take kids and work with kids for special groups. We have a drug program that we've used; the schools you're using our drug program. We're trying our best to make a small niche and help a small segment of the population; we cannot serve and help everyone, absolutely. Charles Koehler 24:18 Can you talk a little bit more about what's being done to meet the needs in general, you mentioned about the drug rehabilitation. Robert Meinholtz 24:27 We've done some. We are concerned, Charles, with child abuse, not child abuse as it just relates to sexual abuse. We are concerned with child abuse as far as neglect is concerned. We are concerned with child abuse as far as hunger is concerned, we're we're, we're really concerned about physical and verbal abuse as well. And we have a number of training sessions that we make and try and get all of our volunteer leaders to come to with experts to be. Able to identify people at high risk and youth at high risk in child abuse, whatever the type of child abuse, giving them the way that they can report it to a family and children service and call a hotline. We encourage people to call the hotline if they have a problem or feel that there's a problem with one of the youth members within their organization. I think that's terribly important. I think the leadership of our council and our leader volunteer leaders have taken that responsibility very sincerely and are trying to their best to help young people who may be at risk in their own family, and people are not aware of it. And I guess the number of calls going into the hotline has increased, as I hear, dramatically over the last three or four years. I hope that we, through our our educational program, assist people and. Transcribed by https://otter.ai