Charles Koehler 0:00 I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a weekly program by and for the St. Louis lesbian and gay community. On the weekend of June 27 and 28th this year, thousands of St. Louis area lesbians and gays celebrated their diversity, pride, and strength in Forest Park at their Annual Lesbian and Gay Pride Fest, but that weekend ended on a stunning note of hatred and violence as lesbians and gays were physically and verbally assaulted. Two gay men were hospitalized. The local newspaper accounts of these assaults were inaccurate and missing key information. We hope to correct that this morning. Joining us are three representatives from the St. Louis lesbian and gay community to answer questions about what really happened on June 28 in Forest Park. We welcome Mark Reed and Michael Levy of the Lesbian and Gay Alliance for Justice and John Napoli of the St. Louis Lesbian and Gay Pride Celebration Committee. Good morning, gentlemen, and welcome to Lambda Reports. Mark Reed 1:05 Good morning. Charles Koehler 1:06 Great. This is going to be a difficult question to ask, but if we could, in a short amount of time, talk about exactly what did happen on June the 28th. Why don't we start first with you, John, or Mark. Mark. Mark Reed 1:22 As the celebration was winding down, on the evening of the 28th people began going to their cars about six o'clock, 6:30. On of the, the first we heard about this, anyway, was about 6:30 and found out that people were being both verbally and physically assaulted as they left the festival area and went into the streets of the park to go to their cars. We understand that this assaulting continued up until almost nine o'clock that evening, resulting in upwards of 40 different incidents of people being either verbally harassed or physically attacked by a group of youths in the park. Charles Koehler 2:05 So just for a second here, let's correct some very important misinformation that was written about on June 30 in the St. Louis Post Dispatch, which indicates, and I'll quote, The incident was short lived. Spicer, that's the police officer said. Quote, It was a spontaneous thing. All hell broke loose for about three or four minutes. It seemed to be over as fast as it started. End quote. And that's when the Post Dispatch, June 30, 1992 and we've just learned that that is absolutely and totally false. Mark Reed 2:36 False, Charles Koehler 2:36 inaccurate. Okay, let's go on. Unfortunately, Mark Reed 2:38 Unfortunately, it would have been nice if that were the case, but it wasn't. And after the incident occurred, we've been having meetings practically every night. The first meeting we had, there were almost 50 lesbians and gays there, and many of them had been victimized. So we got, we were beginning to put together a real picture of what actually took place, and some time frames Charles Koehler 3:02 Okay, and also the police, the Post Dispatch in the same article, June 30 gives the impression that it was basically four men who had been assaulted, and also mentions a couple of women who had been physically assaulted, but gives no indication the large number of people who, in reality, were both physically and verbally assaulted. Mark Reed 3:23 Currently we have 12 actual police reports that have been made about people who have either been verbally or physically assaulted. This is by no means the extent of it, because there have been accounts from people who know people who have been physically assaulted or verbally assaulted that for various reasons, are afraid to come forward and tell their story. Charles Koehler 3:48 The Post Dispatch article, if we can refer back to that again, says again, and I quote none of the other injured men. Well, I'll back up. It says one of the men had his ear cut, cleaned through in half, Spicer said quote, I asked him if he wanted to file and then, in brackets, a complaint end brackets, but he just kept running. They wanted to get out of there as fast as they could. End quote, and that's quoting Spicer the article continues. None of the other injured men wanted to file complaints with the police. Spicer said. Any comments on that? Speaker 1 4:26 I think it's important to remember that there are people that wanted to file reports with the police. That's obviously the case, because on Monday night, we did have the police officers from the district two command center and people from internal affairs, eternal internal affairs that did come to the Pride office to take police reports, and we did have people there. There were people there that were being assaulted, verbally and physically, that asked police officers to arrest people and to take reports and do things, and they were denied that Charles Koehler 4:58 This was during the time that the assaults were taking place. The people specifically asked the police that were there while the assaults were taking place to arrest certain people that had assaulted them, and what was the response of the police? Speaker 1 5:10 They were refused. They told them to just get out of there. Charles Koehler 5:15 That's an interesting response by the police. Speaker 1 5:19 That's one of their responses. Another response was, Well, what do you expect? Charles Koehler 5:23 I heard that from more than one person, and that's a quote by some exactly by some policeman. Quote, well, what did you expect? End quote. And if I can editorialize just a second, I want our listeners to ask themselves, if there are any other groups of people, any other minorities that they could expect the police to ask that same question of and not have absolute outrage from the community. Mark Reed 5:52 Additionally, Charles, there were people who were with people who had been severely injured. I'm thinking specifically of the man who had his ear severed, was lying on the ground bleeding. A woman companion that was with him ran up to a policeman that was inside of the incident and asked for help, for him to go after the people that perpetrated the crime, and his response was just get out of here. Additionally, when the same woman went to a man of, an officer in a police car ,and asked for assistance because her friend was hurt, he responded with the fact that he was not a taxi driver. And she said, But my friend is hurt. His response was, you're not. She said, Do I have to get hurt before you'll help me? And he just kind of shrugged his shoulders. Charles Koehler 6:41 So they're sitting here in just shock. Mark Reed 6:44 There has been a complete, extremely unprofessional approach on many of the the attending officers. And I think that is the thing that enrages our community the most, that these are people that are paid by us, by our tax dollars that we pay to protect us, and then when we're need that we need that protection, they refuse it. And not only refuses refuse it, but then doubly victimize us when we call it, we ask for that help. Charles Koehler 7:15 Was there any indication that I'll be the devil's advocate for a second that the lesbian and gay persons that were assaulted had done anything to bring on the assaults? Mark Reed 7:26 Every response that we've heard from people that have been assaulted, their response is almost identical in that when they realized they were in danger, they said to their companions, don't say anything. Don't turn around, just keep walking. We are in danger. We have to get out of here. So to our knowledge and all indications that we've had, there was no provocation on the part of lesbian and gays. Charles Koehler 7:49 I'm just sitting here, and I'm just trying to piece this together. Yeah. Mark Reed 8:00 Charles, I think it's important to make very clear and point out something that most of the media has not done. It seems that for purposes of sensationalism, the media has tried to take the tack that this was a racially motivated incident, and by all indications, that was not the case. It was a homophobic motivated incident. For some reason, the media thinks that the lesbian and gay community is this monolithic white male community, and that is not true. We are as diverse as the majority culture, and there were African American gays that were assaulted as well. I witnessed a group of African gays being assaulted myself. So it happened cross culturally. It wasn't just something that was directedas whites or blacks against whites, and I really want that impression to be clarified, because that was not the case at all. Charles Koehler 9:05 I think that's a real important point to make, that that we're not talking about, you know, we're talking about homophobia. We're also talking about a hate crime. We're talking about hate crimes being committed. I think it's real important to name what happened hate crimes. And just as a clarification for listeners, in case they don't know what a hate crime is, and I'm reading from a brochure that, incredibly ironically, had just been printed up the day before, or that morning, and was distributed by the Lesbian and Gay Alliance for Justice. It talks about how to report a hate crime if it exists. And just for the record, the Pride Fest celebrations in the past did not have this kind of. Or assault. I mean, they'd Speaker 1 10:01 no we've never had any incidents of violence like this at all. Charles Koehler 10:05 This was the 13th year. Speaker 1 10:07 This was the 13th year. Charles Koehler 10:08 Okay, but I'll read from this brochure. It says, quote, If you are physically or verbally assaulted or threatened because of your sexual orientation, you are a victim of bias or hate crimes. We have a model bias crimes ordinance in the City of St. Louis that includes sexual orientations as one of its many categories. It is not being used properly by communities or by law officials. It provides for additional penalties to be assessed against any bigot for the crime to be investigated by the civil rights enforcement agencies, and it also notes, really, very importantly, the number of hate crimes against lesbians and gay men is increasing faster than almost any other group, and that's something that has been borne out by the Federal Department of Justice study in 1987 and subsequent studies. Speaker 2 10:58 However, if you look at the report on hate crimes from 1991 in the city of St Louis, the outstanding majority of hate crimes were perpetrated against white males or white males and females. There was a smaller amount that were perpetrated against people of color. There were none reported against homosexuals. Charles Koehler 11:21 Although we know for a fact that that is, Speaker 2 11:24 I've had hate crimes perpetrated against me in the last year, Charles Koehler 11:26 and also the news telegraph last year had, I believe it was last year had a very serious bomb threat and death threat against them, which was reported to the St Louis City Police, was reported as being a hate crime. And then when an investigation was done, I believe, by Chief Harmon, he found no record of any hate crimes ever being reported against lesbian and gays since this ordinance went into effect, I believe it was two years ago, Speaker 2 11:54 three years ago, Charles Koehler 11:55 three years Speaker 2 11:55 it's been on the books for three years. Charles Koehler 11:56 I'ts been on the books for three years. Hate crimes have been reported. They have to the police. The police have made no record again of them, even though they're required by this ordinance to do so. Speaker 2 12:06 The KKK showing up at our World Two is another example. Charles Koehler 12:10 Okay, Our World Too for our listeners, is a a community bookstore for lesbians and gays, a very important community resource. Speaker 2 12:19 I think at this time, it's important to remember that although this is a very unfortunate circumstance that's taken place here, I think that it's the community is to be commended for all coming together and taking responsibility for for what we have to do to change this. And one of the things that the community has come together to do. And all the a lot of different organizations, PREP and The Alliance and and the Pride Committee and and Queer Nation have all come together, and we are going to, we are planning an action for this Sunday, July 12, 1982 at 4pm at the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department at 3157 sublet, that's one block south of Arsenal. There will be a rally there at this time, and we will be addressing several issue, and one of our demands is that there be a procedural change for reporting and following up on all hate crimes. Unfortunately, in the City of St. Louis, when someone goes to report a hate crime, they're basically lost in the system. It's almost impossible when some when you call 911, somebody comes out, they really try and talk you out of reporting that hate crime. We're also interested in training the police officers to realize what a hate crime is. When most police officers are told they want to, somebody wants to report a hate crime, though, they're just unaware of what a hate crime is. They're unaware of the fact that statistics are being kept. That's why there are no statistics on hate crimes against homosexual men in the city of St Louis. So I think that that's really one of the important things to remember, and that's one of the unfortunately, I guess, or fortunately, the good thing that is going to come out of this is that the community is banding together to make sure that that we we find out what went on here, and try and get some change here. Charles Koehler 14:01 One of the things that I'll mention, that I've been very impressed to see is the very responsible and constructive way in which the lesbian and gay population and community has responded to this, this outrage that's occurred. Speaker 2 14:18 We have no choice. Obviously, the police aren't going to protect us. We have to protect ourselves in what way we can. Charles Koehler 14:25 Okay. I mean, there's a number of different ways of protecting but I think that this is a very responsible way of responding to a situation which clearly is an injustice to a minority of lesbians, you know, the lesbian and gay population. Mark Reed 14:40 Something I'd like to add to what John has just said is that prior to the the festival, members of or some representatives from the Lesbian and Gay Alliance had met with Chief Harmon to discuss some of these very same issues that we're talking about today. Charles Koehler 14:58 is the Chief of Police, Mark Reed 14:59 Chief of. Police, Charles Koehler 15:00 St Louis, he seen you in the office. Mark Reed 15:02 We were very pleased with our meeting. Chief Harmon was very responsive to what we had suggested, and he realizes that there have to be some changes made. I think he is very much behind these changes occurring. As John said, some of our requests were that, I hate to use the word sensitivity training, because that's pretty much gotten lost these days, and what that means but more of just a professional training that the police realize that there is a hate crimes ordinance on the books. It has been there for three years, and they need to start enforcing it. How they enforce that, how they deal with not only the lesbian and gay community, but other minority communities. We feel and Chief Harmon felt also that this would is best accomplished by an ongoing training program. He was receptive to our having input as far as what needs to be done to if you will, sensitize the police department to the lesbian and gay community and also responsive to our suggesting that people from our community, lesbians and gays, actually be those people doing the training. Another thing we asked him about was that they not only provide equal opportunity on the police force for lesbian and gays, but provide an atmosphere where a lesbian and gay person wanting to become a police officer would not feel intimidated to the point where they wouldn't apply. This is best done by acknowledging the fact that there are lesbian and gay officers on the police force, and that they are doing a fine job on a daily basis, and that these people should be recognized, should not have to hide their sexuality for fear of being intimidated or harassed by their fellow workers. Charles Koehler 16:50 Let me make a point here that I think that is lost on many people, and that going back to what happened in the evening of the 28th, those officers that did come to help lesbians and gays that were assaulted did, of course, what they were they're paid to do. They're paid professionals, and as paid professionals, there are certain things that are asked of them, but something that our listeners might not realize is that they were putting themselves on the line in a different sense, from the standpoint that by taking the stand of protecting lesbians and gays that they might very easily be perceived as being lesbian or gay themselves, and that puts an extra onus on them, and puts an extra burden on them to make that decision whether or not to go ahead and render help, and that's something that shouldn't exist. I mean, if a person is being assaulted, if a crime is being committed, it shouldn't even have to go through their mind, what the sexual orientation Speaker 2 18:02 a taxpayer is a taxpayer, Charles Koehler 18:03 a taxpayer is a taxpayer. Lesbians and Gays are not taxed any less than anyone else. They pay the same taxes. They deserve the same type of Speaker 2 18:14 Well, I think what's important is that we're all human beings, and we're not asked. We're not asking to be treated any better or any worse, all's we're asking is for our human our basic human rights. Charles Koehler 18:25 One of the things that I've heard espoused by a number of, if I can call them, fundamentalist or persons that are against any sort of hate hate crime legislation, is that they feel that lesbians or gays are expecting special treatment, special rights, and I think that we're all in agreement that none of us are expecting any sort of special treatment, but are expecting to have the same type of treatment that everyone else has a right to expect. I think that's very important to … Does everyone agree on that fact? Speaker 2 19:01 Absolutely, Mark Reed 19:02 Unfortunately, Charles, I think what you were addressing with the police situation is is also prevalent in many other areas of our society, particularly I've been aware of it as as it applies to legislators who are either lesbian or gay, but because of internalized homophobia, are oftentimes the people that that put forth the most stringent laws against homosexuals. So until we can really eradicate homos or eradicate homophobia and sexism and racism there, it's going to be an ongoing problem. Charles Koehler 19:44 We've been talking about some generalities. Let's get to some specifics as to exactly what happened in the park. How did the attackers end up in the area where they did? Speaker 1 19:55 Well, I think it's important to remember that first of all, over the last, I mean, this is the 13th year that we've had this, and we've never had this problem before. The the day, Charles Koehler 20:07 It's always been about the same time of the year. Speaker 1 20:09 It's always been, yeah, it's always been about the same time of the year, and it's always been the same time, and it's always been basically the same location for the last several years. And basically the the kids in the park have been meeting in the park for a long time on Sunday afternoon; they have no Charles Koehler 20:26 for years Speaker 1 20:26 for years. They have no place else to go. It's where they congregate. It's where they socialize. And it's important to remember that it was not the whole group of kids. It was a certain section. I mean, it was a certain amount of kids within that group of people that did the abusing, or whatever. Charles Koehler 20:43 Let's clarify something right now. Do they have a right to be in the park? Speaker 1 20:47 Of course. Charles Koehler 20:48 is there any question? There any, and Speaker 1 20:50 that's not that. It's not Charles Koehler 20:52 they have a right to be in the part Speaker 1 20:52 It's not an us and us and them issue. And that is not what we're truly worried about. The things that we are concerned about is that the police, we are aware that the police knew that they existed there, and we were not informed that they were, that they they were going to be there, close to our site, where people that were in participating in our event were parking. We're also very interested in knowing why the the area where they normally meet, which is the Confederate Circle was blocked off because of a Muni event, and they were purposely moved towards our event instead of being moved away from our event. In other words, making it, making sure that there was almost going to be a confrontation between the two groups, because they're just so different. And there's, you know, there is a diverse group of people in a very close proximity. Instead of moving them further away, which is what they were trying to do, was move them away from the Muni traffic so that the Muni people would not be interrupted at all. And in doing so, they moved them right into our site and right into where there would be a conflict. And I think that that's a real important, important fact to consider. Charles Koehler 22:00 Could they have been moved somewhere else? Speaker 1 22:02 They could have been moved somewhere else with certain blockades. According to the parks department, they they have ways of moving them just about anywhere they want them, and they can move them around at will. Charles Koehler 22:12 And then by moving streets, moving groups of individuals that congregate in the park, is something that is regularly done all the time on a routine basis. Speaker 1 22:21 depending upon what events are going on in the park. Charles Koehler 22:23 Right? Speaker 2 22:24 I'd like to make mention here that in moving them away from the muni, which was a crowd of around 2500 to 3000 they moved them into a group that was between 6000 to 8000 now it doesn't take much, at least for me, to put together that they've moved them around away from a small select group into a very diverse group. Well, there's two, three times as large. Charles Koehler 22:50 Another important group that, just by by statistics, has a record of having the greatest number of hate crimes committed against them. Speaker 1 23:00 and rising quickly and rising quickly, yeah, Mark Reed 23:03 Charles, both, both groups are, to begin with, marginalized members of our society, Charles Koehler 23:08 Absolutely. Mark Reed 23:09 And I think it was at at very best, I would, I would like to think it was just gross negligence on the part of the police in in putting those two groups in such close proximity. There has been speculation among certain people in our community that this was actually a planned move on the part of the police department. I really don't want to, I would not like to think that, and I'm hoping that it is just gross negligence on their part, but either way, they should have known that to put two marginalized groups like this, of this size in such close proximity could only breed problems, and at very best, they should have at least alerted the Pride Celebration Committee that this was the situation and that we needed to take some kind of additional precautions. Charles Koehler 23:57 I'd like to remind our listeners that, once again, policemen are paid professionals. Just as you go to a doctor, you have a right to expect certain professional services to be rendered in a responsible manner. You go to any other, when you hire an electrician to do a job, you expect their job to be done correctly in a responsible manner. You have a right to expect professional treatment by policemen to give police all of their due worth of which they are certainly due. They face a number of challenges. They do much, much more than direct traffic and handle minor issues. They're under a lot of pressure and everything else. But this is part of their job. This is what they get paid for. This is what they go into the profession for. Unassigned 24:43 Do the words serve and protect. Ring a bell with you, right? Speaker 1 24:51 I also think at this point it's important to remember that there were a lot of incidents. Some of them we do know about. Some of them we don't know about. If there's anybody out there that is. Listening to us this morning that is interested in reporting a hate crime about that day, or really any other time, we know that this is not an unusual circumstance. Charles Koehler 25:09 It's not an isolated incident. Speaker 1 25:11 No, it's not an isolated incident. If you're a victim of a hate crime and you're interested in reporting it, you can call Challenge Metro at 367-0084, or you can call the the Lesbian and Gay Alliance for Justice at 862-4900 or you can call the Pride office at 772-8888. Obviously, the best way to report a hate crime is to call the police. If you do not get a response from the police, it's important to rely on your own community. We will help to make sure that your crime is reported. We will help to make sure that you get the counseling that you need. We will help to make sure that you get through it. Mark Reed 25:53 John, I want to add that too, that if people because of we understand that there are people that just cannot come out, and the fear of filing a police report, having their name possibly in the paper, in the media, is a real fear for many people. Charles Koehler 26:08 People have lost their jobs, yeah, they've lost their housing. Yeah. I mean, this is a real concern. It's not something that's just made up fictionalized. So real concern. Mark Reed 26:17 We want to let you know that if that is the case, that you can file a report anonymously, we have cleared this with the police. They are willing to either take your statement directly, anonymously, or if that is even too threatening for you, you can give your statement to a member of the Alliance or ACTION or the Pride committee, and that then can be turned over to the police, and this can all be done in complete anonymity. So if, if you have been victimized, please, please come forward. It is very important that we, that we begin to make these records and that we can say, Yes, we are being victimized and it is not being reported as hate crimes. Speaker 1 26:58 I think one of the important reasons to, just to add to that. And one of the things that I got from the meetings with the police and everything and with everybody, is especially the police, is that when the victims stood up, and, you know, they, the police came into the first meeting, and they were so sure that there were so very, very few incidents of abuse. And when people started standing up and telling that, telling their stories and making reports to the police, they were they seemed a little amazed that this was really going on. And I don't think that they realize, and that's why it's so important that you report hate crimes, so that there are statistics, so that when we try and change the law, so that we try and get more police protection, so that when we go to the St. Louis Police Department on Sunday and and have a rally and say that things need to be changed, we have some some information and statistics to back us up. Mark Reed 27:50 We have begun a very, very good dialog with, if you will, upper management in the police department, specifically Chief Harmon, and it's real critical at this point that information that we have concerning hate crimes be reported, so that he has the tools that he needs to bring about the changes within his department. Charles Koehler 28:11 Great, great. Are there any other comments you want to make in about the one minute that we have left? Speaker 1 28:18 Just that we will be at the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department at 3157 Sublet this Sunday, June 12, at 4pm for a rally, and we'd like your participation. It's important that we get out there and demand change in our community. Charles Koehler 28:34 Great. And I might mention that the location is one block south of Arsenal, and that this this action will be peaceful and legal. Unassigned 28:43 Yes, absolutely Charles Koehler 28:44 and be respecting the law. We've been talking with John Napoli, Mark Reed and Michael Levy about the assaults on lesbians and gays which occurred in Forest Park on June 28. Thanks to all of you for being with us and helping to correct some misinformation and bringing about better understanding. And if you, our listener, have been a victim of hate crime, regardless of your race, religion, age, sexual orientation or whatever, call the city Civil Rights Enforcement Agency at 622-3301 and the National Hate Crimes Hotline, that's a federal line at 1-800-347-HATE that's H-A-T-E, and in addition, if you're lesbian or gay, call the Challenge Metro Hotline at 367-0084 that's 367-0084 to be included in the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Annual Report on Hate Crimes. Remember that if a hate crime is not reported, then it never happened, and silence encourages more and more and more attacks to take place. It depends on you to make a change until next week. This is Charles Koehler for Lambda Reports. Tune us in again next week, same time, same station. Transcribed by https://otter.ai