Charles Koehler 0:00 I'm Charles Koehler, and this is Lambda Reports, a weekly program by and for the St. Louis area lesbian and gay community here on Jukebox, 96. Most of our listeners know that Dignity is the lesbian and gay supportive group that provides outreach to area Roman Catholics. The local chapter has been active in the St. Louis community for over a decade, and this year, Dignity St. Louis will host the region six conference on October 2 to 4. We welcome long time Dignity member and newsletter editor, past president and conference coordinator, John Johnson, Good morning, John, and welcome to Lambda Reports. John Johnson 0:41 Thank you, Charles. I'm glad to be here. Charles Koehler 0:43 Let's talk a little bit about the upcoming conference, and little bit later on, about the keynote speaker that some of our listeners might have heard of, Suzanne Farr. But first about the conference. What are some of the issues that are facing the church today and its lesbian and gay members, and how are these kinds of issues addressed in this conference. John Johnson 1:02 Well, the central issue, which is not just a church issue, it's a societal issue as well, is the whole issue of homophobia, Charles Koehler 1:10 Okay. And for our new listeners, or homophobia, is what, in a nutshell? John Johnson 1:16 The irrational fear of gays and lesbians simply because they are gay or lesbian, Charles Koehler 1:22 Okay, are perceived or perceived Yes, perceived lesbians or gays or people that are perceived to be that. So homophobia seems to be the central theme that that of the the conference in addressing that issue, John Johnson 1:37 Yes. Charles Koehler 1:37 Okay, and how? How are these issues being addressed in the conference? Any specifics that that you have and John Johnson 1:46 Well, we booked Suzanne Pharr largely because of the name recognition due to her book, Homophobia: a Weapon of Sexism. In addition, we've tried to build the other workshops around that central theme, and in fact, the title of the conference is God's Gifts, Nurtured or Hindered by Homophobia. Speaker 1 2:07 And we've Charles Koehler 2:07 And we've heard some on a national level, some examples of homophobia in the recent Republican convention, in which issues of a person's sexuality were central to the Republican or some of the members of the Republican Party's platform, and I think that that's helped to raise the whole issue of sexuality, homosexuality, and issues of homophobia and gay bashing, as it was called by many of the News weeklies. John Johnson 2:38 Yes, it's will come to a great surprise to the Republicans that we do have family values, Charles Koehler 2:46 absolutely and as matter of fact, the there are definitely lesbians and gays within the Republican Party, as is evidenced by the log cabin group, which is a group of lesbians and gays who are staunch Republicans, yes, yes, they've gone through some trying times recently, to say the least, but that's a whole other program. So homophobia is the central theme, and Suzanne Farr is going to be talking about it at the conference. What are some of the other conference workshops? I know that there's over 17 events that weekend that that really cover a whole wide range of topics. What are what are some of them? John Johnson 3:28 Well, we have one entitled hiding behind alcohol. Very frequently, gays and lesbians use alcohol as a means to try and avoid their sexuality, or if they act out on their sexuality than to try and forget about it. And of course, as any alcoholic is well aware, it just doesn't work that way. We also address the image of God. The strict definition of that particular workshop is that we are taught by society, and very frequently by the church, that the image of God is male. Well, not everybody sees it that way, and it's not even presented that way exclusively in the Bible. So that is also addressed, that you can envision God as either masculine, feminine or totally asexual. Charles Koehler 4:14 Making it more more personal, spiritual being exactly that you can relate to exactly. John Johnson 4:23 We also have two complementing workshops, Finding Mr. Right and Finding Ms. Right. And it's just kind of combination of Dating 101 for Gays and Lesbians to exactly. What are you looking for in a relationship? How do you stabilize? Exactly what do you need to do once you're in a relationship to try and make it work, that sort of thing, Charles Koehler 4:47 And tagging back onto the Republican Party and the whole family values, this part of the purpose of these two workshops is to help to form family units as they might be defined as a family and to help stabilize them. John Johnson 5:04 Right? For years, I've heard the argument that even gays and lesbians in a committed relationship really aren't married, therefore they're committing adultery and they're having sex outside of marriage. Well, that's all well and good, but there's no reason that we can't get married, other than the lega,the lack of any legal way to do it, and so it just doesn't really follow logically. Charles Koehler 5:30 Okay, great. John Johnson 5:32 We're also addressing the topic of HIV negative, HIV positive, and those individuals who have not been tested on the whole AIDS issue in a workshop called Mending the Splits. And it's a little bit complicated, so if I might read the workshop description, This is a dialog between seronegative, sero unknown, and seropositive gay men, a perspective on HIV infection, encompassing shame, stigma and outsider status.And outsider status means the person who has not gotten to the point of wanting to know whether they are HIV positive or not, will be presented to help clarify and explain some of the divisions and responses of the gay male community to the epidemic. The workshop coordinator has been part of this workshop at several conferences throughout the country, and the basis for the workshop is that the division of these three groups of gay men in the community is building walls that are counterproductive to both the AIDS issue as well as the community. Charles Koehler 6:46 In other words, the whole issue that we're talking about here is in part, about the stigmatization and the division between those people that are, in some cases HIV positive, that that have contracted are carrying the HIV virus and those that are not, and also those that don't know, John Johnson 7:06 Right. Charles Koehler 7:07 And it really does create an atmosphere of tension, which is not healthy at all for any of the parties involved, and and it works against building bridges that that desperately need to be built, and particularly in this day of the AIDS epidemic and pandemic and all that's going on. Exactly John Johnson 7:28 Exactly Great. Another workshop is entitled, sexism, unresolved issues with the patriarchy. This brings the whole issue of sexism into a more church-related focus, and it will examine the tenants of sexism, the foundation for sexism and homophobia. And it might be of interest to the listeners to know that this particular workshop is being led by one of the interviewers for this program, Deb Law Charles Koehler 8:00 Great, great. John Johnson 8:03 The next workshop is you might consider the title to be a kind of flight of fancy, Even Dolphins and Seagulls and Cats are Queer, and the individual who's leading this workshop says that basically the focus of the workshop is going to be the healing of the sexual abuse called homophobia by enjoying the nature and loving of our tribe. And he uses the word tribe as a more all encompassing vision of loving not only our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, but by loving people in general and trying to accept them as well as accept ourselves. And because of our degree of acceptance, to be able to follow our hearts and not be afraid to be ourselves. Charles Koehler 8:55 Great. And that speaker will be John Hilgeman, who also by coincidence, happens to be co-host on Lambda Reports, this very program. Yes, that was not intentional that it just just happened that way. Okay. John John Johnson 9:07 Okay. The last three workshops are not directly dealing with the theme, but as in any any conference, you do have to have a little bit of a break from the theme in order to just break the tension and provide a broader focus. We have one called Liturgy 102. Charles Koehler 9:27 Why not 101? It's a step beyond 101 I take it? John Johnson 9:31 Right. Liturgy 101 would be considered to be tradition, traditional church liturgies, a mass with a priest up there, entirely male-oriented, and Dignity tries to broaden the focus on liturgy and include women to a greater extent, Charles Koehler 9:50 Be more inclusive. John Johnson 9:51 Exactly, and that's the focus of that particular workshop. There's also one on gay and lesbian finances. Of course, the focus of that is to, to take the whole issue of finances and personalize it for those people in either a gay and lesbian coupled relationship or an individual. It is recognized that many gays and lesbians have more discretionary income, but how do you really effectively utilize that income to its best end, and those people who are interested in that should definitely try and attend this workshop. Charles Koehler 10:28 And also, there's other issues that are associated with that, such as issues of inheritance, which the law does not provide for automatically, as it doesn't with heterosexual marriages and their offspring and everything else. It's something that really needs to be taken a very close look at. And in terms of retirement, all of those issues are very important and key, right And then the last workshop. John Johnson 10:54 The last workshop is entitled Linking the Chain, a Leadership and Team-building Workshop. And we're very excited about this particular workshop, because it has exactly that potential of taking the individuals who attend, who are going to be a broad spectrum of leadership from the various chapters within Region Six as well as local people, and teaching them how to work together, how to have confidence in each other, and to identify the issues that are being faced by the group, Dignity and what we can do in order to accomplish those goals and take care of those issues. Charles Koehler 11:39 Okay, well, that's that's quite a broad spectrum of workshops, but I understand that the the whole weekend the conference will not just be sitting in rooms in October and listening to people speak or participating in panel discussions or discussions, but lots of other things. Tell us a little bit about that, I understand there's dinners, there's there's going to be a dance and all sorts of other things those three, three days of the conference, John Johnson 12:07 Right. In fact, starting with Friday evening, in addition to, of course, registration, we are offering a welcoming cocktail party followed by a staged reading of a premiere for St. Louis of a new play called Assumptions, Charles Koehler 12:23 Okay, now that was written by a St. Louisan. John Johnson 12:25 Right, and a member of Dignity St Louis. Her name is Linda Peavy, and she recently won for that play the 1991 Missouri Script Rights Competition. Charles Koehler 12:39 Fantastic. But can you tell us just a little bit about the about the about the play and what, what people that will attend this reading can expect? John Johnson 12:47 Yes, the play centers on the problems encountered by a well-closeted male who's bout with age thrusts him naked and dying into a world of family, friends and, colleagues who have always been proud of him for what he's done, that is, direct the church, at an evangelical southern church, but are suddenly ashamed of who and what he has been, a gay male in a straight society. The play is vitally concerned with the complexities associated with being diagnosed HIV positive. However, it's also equally concerned with the complexities of leading the double life so many of us lead, and with the struggle to hold on to one's spirituality in the face of the inflexibility of organized religion. And surprisingly, although it deals with a lot of heavy issues, the play's a comedy, perhaps a dark one, Charles Koehler 13:35 That in and of itself, would be reason to cause me to want to see it. I can, I can't imagine a comedy being made out of a topic so, so serious. But I've seen other plays similar to that, and they've done a done a great job. So I'm looking forward to to seeing that stage reading, and I understand it's going to be produced later on in 93 I believe it is in the St. Louis area and perhaps elsewhere, John Johnson 13:59 Right, right. Charles Koehler 14:00 Great. So that's that's on Friday evening at 8:30 and we'll talk a little bit more about reservations and the like a little bit later on in the program for that and other workshops and activities. So then moving on to Saturday, I see that we kick off with a continental breakfast. Those. Those are always very nice in workshops. And then let's talk a little bit about the keynote address that's going to be in the early afternoon with Suzanne Pharr. She's she's from what I understand, just an incredible, incredibly dynamic person, and we're really fortunate to have her here in in St. Louis to speak at the at the conference. John Johnson 14:43 Yes, it's the first time Suzanne has been to St. Louis to speak. And for those of you who might know or might not know much about Suzanne and her work, she was a moving force in the abused women's movement in the 80s. She was one of the founders of the Women's Project in Little Rock, Arkansas, and she is much in demand as a speaker all across the country because of her work on sexism and racism, and her thoughtfulness and the fact that she just has a charming southern touch to her presentation. She lives in Arkansas, but she's been in Oregon at the request of the Oregon citizen, or, I'm sorry, in response to the gay and lesbian activists in Oregon in fighting the attempts by the Oregon Citizens Alliance to pass laws outlawing gays and lesbians in Oregon. Charles Koehler 15:36 Let's stop there just a second. Talk for a few seconds about that legislation that that, in and of itself, is extremely, extremely frightening concept, that laws would be passed that would in essence, outlaw almost the existence of lesbians and gays, outlaw the existence of 10% of a population that pay taxes that are, you know, part of established families there, you know, you know, the impact and the violence that that sort of movement has on on the fabric of society is, it's frightening, and it's almost reminiscent of early intolerance that one would see in early 1930s and 40s in Nazi Germany. John Johnson 16:29 Right. In fact, the laws they're attempting to pass, the initiatives would declare homosexuality as abnormal behavior. They would mandate discrimination against homosexuals. Charles Koehler 16:40 Did I hear you, right? You said, mandate discrimination? John Johnson 16:43 Yes, mandate. Charles Koehler 16:44 It would be mandated by law that you would that that's what is expected, is that you will discriminate against lesbians and gays. John Johnson 16:50 Yes, that we would be denied our rights. Charles Koehler 16:53 Okay, that's happening right here, right now in Oregon. John Johnson 16:56 Yes. And it also would dictate that schools discourage homosexuality, not just not address the issue. Charles Koehler 17:06 I think positive reason to pause to think about that. That's rather chilling. Yeah, go ahead. John Johnson 17:15 As Suzanne herself says, If they succeed in Oregon or Colorado, where the extreme right is also attempting to pass the statewide initiative, we will see this in every state in the union. We do not have the luxury of watching this from afar. We must stop this now, or there may be no stopping it. Charles Koehler 17:34 I understand that on a national level, that there is a number of prominent I uh, politicians and celebrities that have specifically addressed the the issue in Oregon, you know that are speaking out against this kind of violence to people. And, yeah, go ahead, John Johnson 18:01 As I mentioned earlier, the other reason that some of you may have heard of Suzanne Pharr is because of her book, and I would like to mention or actually read a couple of excerpts from the book, which I think tie in directly both with the conference and the state of our or the mentality of many people in our country right now. To quote, homophobia works effectively as a weapon of sexism because it is joined with a powerful arm heterosexism. Heterosexism creates the climate for homophobia with this assumption that the world that is and must be homosexual, I'm sorry, must be heterosexual, and its display of power and privilege as the norm. Heterosexism is the systematic display of homophobia in the institutions of society. Heterosexism and homophobia work together to enforce compulsory heterosexuality, and that bastion of patriarchal power, the nuclear family Kind of reminds you of the beck and call of the Republican convention that we must have family values Again, quoting Charles Koehler 19:19 as if, as if lesbians and gays cannot form their own family value, and if they are not a traditional family, whatever that is, then they must be amoral and deserving of all sorts of rejection and scorn and laws against them, etc. John Johnson 19:37 Exactly. They're basically saying that we must have family values, and those values must be the values of my family. Again, quoting the central focus of the right wing attack against women's liberation is the women's equality, women's self-determination, women's control of our own bodies and lives will damage what they see as the crucial societal institution, the nuclear family. The attack has been led by fundamentalist ministers across the country. The two areas they have focused on most consistently are abortion and homosexuality, and their passion has led them to bomb women's clinics, to recommend deprogramming of homosexuals, and establishing camps to quarantine people with AIDS. To resist marriage and or heterosexuality is to resist severe punishment or loss. Basically, Suzanne is saying that the entire issue of homophobia and sexism are inseparably linked. And in fact, she says, in regards to the perception of those of us who are gay and lesbian, is such that even the perception itself leads to homophobia. Again, quoting to be a lesbian is to be perceived as someone who has stepped out of line, who has moved out of sexual economic dependence on a male, who is woman identified a lesbian, is perceived as someone who can live without a man, and who is therefore, however illogically, against men, a lesbian is perceived as being outside the acceptable, routinized order of things. She is seen as someone who has no societal institutions to protect her, and who is not privileged to the protection of individual males. Many heterosexual women see her as someone who stands in contradiction to the sacrifices they have made to conform to compulsory heterosexuality. A lesbian is perceived as a threat to the nuclear family, to male dominance and control, and to the very heart of sexism. She ties in homophobia quite well by saying, gay men are perceived also as a threat to Gail, I'm sorry, to male dominance and control, and the homophobia expressed against them has the same roots in sexism as does homophobia against lesbians. Visible gay men are the objects of extreme hatred and fear by heterosexual men because their breaking ranks with male heterosexual solidarity is seen as a damaging rent to the very fabric of sexism. They are seen as betrayers, as traitors who must be punished and eliminated in the beating and killing of gay men. We see clear evidence of this hatred when we see the fierce homophobia expressed towards gay men, we can begin to understand the way sexism also affects males through imposing rigid, dehumanizing gender roles on them. There's two circumstances in which the legitimate expression of open physical physicality can be expressed by heterosexual men are in the areas of competitive sports and the crisis of war. For many men, these two experiences are the highlights of their lives, and they think of them again and again with nostalgia. War and sports offer a cover for all male safety and dominance to keep away the notion of affection and openness being identified with homosexuality. When gay men break the ranks with gay roles through bonding and affection outside the arenas of war and sports, they are perceived as not being real men, that is, as being identified with women, the weaker sex that must be dominated and that over the centuries, has been the object of male hatred and abuse. Charles Koehler 23:45 Lot of material for for reflection and thought, one of one of the thoughts that that I had in regards to the recent or the last statement there, is that this type of homosexual, heterosexism and homophobia does violence, not only to lesbians and gays and people perceived to be lesbians and gays, but also to the persons that are perpetrating the homophobia and the heterosexism on others, because it constrains them. It does not allow them to truly be all they can be as human beings. It's, it's, it's not a good thing. It really isn't. It does a lot of damage to a lot of people. And well, I know that that I'm definitely looking forward to to hearing Suzanne Pharr speak at this conference that's going to be, she'll be speaking from two o'clock until three o'clock on Saturday, October the third. And incidentally, all of these events are going to be taking place at the Hampton Inn. That is almost directly across the street from the Union Station downtown St. Louis. And I understand that in the afternoon, there'll be some more workshops, followed by a dinner dance that evening on October the third, and there'll be a cash bar pre-dinner dance cocktail hour before the dance, and then the next morning, there will be several other conferences. And I understand that the conference our workshops, and then I understand that the workshop is going, is is going to be ended with a liturgy on Sunday afternoon? Is that correct? John Johnson 25:42 That's correct? Yes, at 130 Great. Charles Koehler 25:44 Well, that's a very full weekend, and I understand that the fee for the entire weekend, which would include the dinner dance, the stage reading of assumptions, the keynote address, continental breakfasts and cocktail and just virtually everything that we've talked about will be for a total of what $70. John Johnson 26:07 Yes. Charles Koehler 26:08 And for anyone who's been to conferences recently, they know that that has got to be one of the bargains of at least this year. Just great. John Johnson 26:18 Yes. I should note that if one is wanting to attend the entire conference, registrations would have to be received no later than the 26th or 27th, or we cannot guarantee that you would be able to attend the dinner dance. As you are probably well aware, caterers do have to know how much food to buy in advance. Charles Koehler 26:39 Great, great. So, and I understand that if individuals can't be there for the entire weekend, that they can attend individual workshops and also the staged reading or the keynote address or the dinner dance individually. And they can do that also. They can do that at the door, I believe. John Johnson 26:58 They can do that at the door for most things. Again, with the dinner dance, if they would like to ascend, attend that as a separate event, I would need the same time constraints with registration by the 26th 27th so I can turn in numbers on the 28th and the dinner dance alone is $20. Charles Koehler 27:18 Okay, great bargain at that too. John Johnson 27:22 I would like to note also that the keynote address can be attended for $10 and that does include a workshop which follows it by Suzanne Pharr, which is not a working workshop. It's more a discussion type workshop where Suzanne will be discussing not only the topic of her keynote address, but also taking questions. Charles Koehler 27:46 Great. Well, we've got about 30 seconds left. Unfortunately, we even haven't had time to talk at all about the Vatican's recent proclamation that concerns a lot of people, regardless of their their religion, and I understand that Dignity St. Louis is coming up with a response to that, that proclamation, and we'll be hearing from Dignity St. Louis shortly on that, yes, imagine, great. Yeah, it, it's, it's a very disturbing trend from Vatican National, and I understand that there's a retreat coming up very shortly, which we'll talk about in a second with John Johnson. We've been talking with him about the upcoming dignity Region Six conference this October, 2nd to 4th, held at the Hampton Inn, just across the street from St. Louis Union Station and John, I wish you best of luck with that that conference. I understand that the retreat will take place in October, the 23rd to the 25th and at Jones Log Home. And if you're interested in additional information about the conference or the upcoming retreat, Dignity retreat. Are about Dignity St. Louis as a whole. You can call the Dignity information line at 863-6002, that's 863-6002, or you can write Dignity St. Louis at Post Office Box, 23093, St Louis, 630156. Until next week, remember that safe sex isn't an option. It's everyone's responsibility to protect themselves and others. Be safe, play safe. First time, every time. This is Charles Koehler for Lambda Reports. Tune us in again next week, same time, same station. Transcribed by https://otter.ai